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Thread: confusing k and r

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Posted: 2020-04-20 20:46
is anyone else having a hard time differentiation k and r? Seems i get it right only 50% of the time

Posted: 2020-04-21 00:46
you are going too fast, 120 exercises in 2 days,doing 5 lessond with accuracy 50 percent.

Rule is: go to next lesson when your score is over 90 %

Posted: 2020-04-21 05:31
i got that problem too. In my case the problem was - i used the optical memory...i started morse many years before, from paper and sigs :-(( that is a vy bad idea.

Posted: 2020-04-21 07:58
It's a common mistake at the beginning.

Based on Nonagenarian's data, you 're going way too fast for assimilation: you can fudge the 90% rule to a degree (I went once to the next lesson with 74% and once in the mid 80% but almost always had 92-93% before doing the next one).

Slow down, what's the rush?

Posted: 2020-04-21 09:14
is anyone else having a hard time differentiation k and r? Seems i get it right only 50% of the time

Good, so you aren't wasting your time = you are learning.

It's not just about learning the characters.

It's about recognising them automatically without thinking about it.

This comes from lots of repetetive repetition - so it takes time.

What were your aspirations for how long it would take you ?

Go too slow = waste some time.

Go too fast = it doesn't sink in. Start again or give up in frustration.

Stick with it.

good luck

Posted: 2020-05-05 08:39
i am at lesson 9 and still confuse K and R at 30-40% of try....i repeat 10-12 times every lesson until now...i think is still a problem of exercising and many repeats..

Posted: 2020-05-05 09:59
If it's any consolation, I had a lot of trouble with "mirror" letters. I still do to a certain extent. L and F, G and W. Those must form 20% of my copying errors.

I'm guessing this is a hang-over from recognising morse characters visually rather than by their sound shape. The guys on here will know better than me.

Like most things to do with morse code, it gets better with practice. Lots of lovely practice.

Posted: 2020-05-19 20:13
When I first started hearing 'r' it got stuck in my head as the sound of the word 'potato' so I hear 'po-TAY-to'.

Now I don't often mix up r with other characters. Unfortunately I never got a sounds-like word for 'k'. I just know it is not a potato.

Posted: 2020-08-07 17:24
I'm still learning, but one thing that I believe has helped me break through the "K/R barrier" is sitting through a few passes listening for just "R" and ignoring everything else.

Posted: 2020-08-11 12:17
I had this problem with different pairs of letters r/k, w/k, v/4 ect....
but i practiced consequently the lessons and move to the next lesson when I got over 90% 2-times. Sometimes the sound in my head changed by using different speeds and then the problem shifted to an other letter hihi. But after month of practice I had a magic moment. I wrote down the 5-groups and after that I realiced that I didn't heard the sound of the letters. They came instinktivly out of my pen....that was amazing.
So stick to the rules (20/5 or higher, over 90%, daily practice,....) and don't give up. It is worth it, and the succsess is unstopable
73 OE8FBF Harry

Posted: 2020-08-11 20:08
I feel I am having the same trouble with k and r. I think some clarification on what learning the "sound not the dit's and dah's" means. I have been trying to learn each letter by the total sound that they make not learning the individual di-dah-dit but it does not seem to be working. To some degree, dont you have to listen and identify the individual dit's to identify the letter or am I really trying to learn 26 unique sounds for the alphabet?

Posted: 2020-08-11 23:44
The Koch philosophy seems to be that each letter is to be like a musical thing, where it is automatically recognized, without any “translation” from dits and dahs. I am experimenting with using the reverse, I.e. mentally generating the sounds (and whistling them) from letters I see, or just think of. You can do that anytime without any equipment. Maybe working from both ends will help. I find the letter F has a very recognizable cadence. Some letters do some dont. Then it’s another level to recognize whole words.

Posted: 2020-08-12 00:11
For me learning the individual dits and dahs came first. Heating characters as one came much later.

Don'T see how I could have skipped that.

If what is proclaimed in this forum would be true then learning of musical instruments should be revolutionized: Start playing an instrument much faster than you can manage, carry on, and some day all will fall into place and suddeny you can play perfectly.


Posted: 2020-08-22 02:13
Former music teacher. New to morse.

There actually is a technique of learning music that involves playing at or near performance tempo, but in small manageable pieces.

Slow practice is a good technique, but is often done incorrectly and ultimately places an artificially low ceiling on the tempo at which one can execute a passage.

Posted: 2021-09-08 22:11
Music student here.
Clearly you guys have never heard of sight-reading

Posted: 2021-09-16 17:03
I disagree with many of the above (this does not mean I am right)

Learning each character at speed, the essence of the koch method, is brilliant. Learning the rhythm of each character, rather than the dots/dashes, really is the key.

From there it is easy to slow down & the dots/dashes come automatically - especially if I maintain a reasonable amount of sending practice.

Posted: 2021-10-14 03:54
I find myself stuck on lesson 3 because of this problem. I am at 25/5 and was able to get consistent perfect scores at 25/4. Every little distraction in the house results in errors most often between K and R. Alone they are distinguishable but in the midst of a "word" I lose it.

Posted: 2021-10-14 10:22
I find myself stuck on lesson 3 because of this problem. I am at 25/5 and was able to get consistent perfect scores at 25/4.

Probably better to do that ( 25/4) then . . .

You need to make progress - else you will get fed up and give up.

Accuracy first - speed second.

Try to get to the end of the 40 lessons . . .

You are ( probebly ) trying to get an automatic reaction - here code -> character pops into your head without you thinking about it.

This is done by repeated decoding - not repeated failing - which is for speeding up


Every little distraction in the house results in errors most often between K and R. Alone they are distinguishable but in the midst of a "word" I lose it.

As you get better at it - you may find the code seems to slow down somehow - also you may begin to find you are somehow remembering what you heard without consciously having to do it - and decoding it slightly later, whilst remembering the next code . .

This ( probably ) what you are here to learn . . by practice

Better to wear ear-buds to to cut out distractions ( for your 15 mins a day . . . )



Posted: 2021-10-25 18:41
when I listen the "r" I always listen "perceeption", I don't know why. And I speak spanish, so when I listen "k", I listen "tómala", but Iḿ sure that there's an english word than can fit

Posted: 2021-11-04 02:15
You say Tamale, I say Potato. Someone earlier suggested remembering "r" with Po-Tay-To.

Posted: 2021-11-07 17:52
I think of "K" as la di da. Helps me...:)

Check out Long Island CW Club. Another great resource to learn CW.

Posted: 2021-11-08 14:14
I have one idea about letters that are mixed up when received. Perhaps it would be helpful to create some lessons which for a time, separate the receiving of K and R in the same lesson. That means a lesson with a larger number of K's. and after a few days or a week (whatever you choose), have some lessons with a large number of R's.
This momentary separation, should help with the specific memory and recognition of K's first and R's later.
Here are some practice lessons to copy and paste into LCWO's CONVERT TEXT TO CW feature.

kik kak kek kok kuk kyk
kikky kakky kekky kokky
kukky kikky kook spook duke
k1 2k k3 4k k5 6k k7 8k k9 10k

A second lesson might be a jumbled up sequence
of the previous text, as in:

This might ensure that you master the K sound.

I think I mixed those up rather well.

Then you can have a lesson featuring R's, like.

rare stare rate rr
1r r2 3r r4 5r
rear risp carry rare
r6 7r r8 9r r10
hurry parry starry

Another lesson for R practice might be a jumbled up arrangement of the previous R lesson, like:

caare rate rrdryr rare
r6 r7r sp carirry rare
r6 tar 7r marr8 re rate
marrry rarity rrr r6 7r
parrity r8 9r ry rest star

You can always rearrange such combinations. Such lessons may help you to recognize 1 letter at a time, if it requires special effort to rewire our memory of a sound. If you do not practice with copying both K and R at the same time, it may be better for you. Know one, before you include the other.

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