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LCWO Discussion Forum [Atom LCWO Forum Feed]

This is a simple discussion forum for LCWO users. Feel free to use it for any kind of discussion related to this website.

Thread: Minimum speed setting ignored

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AuthorText


Posted: 2013-11-24 19:46
On callsign training (at least) the minimum speed setting is ignored. Get too many wrong, and it'll happily send you callsigns at slower and slower speeds, well below the minimum value set...


Posted: 2013-11-24 22:37
Come to think of it: Why is there a minimum character speed?

If you have, as an example, set the following in the lessons:

Character speed 20,
Effective speed 10,

then in the Word training and the Callsign training, this leads to the defaults:

Speed 20,
Min. Character Speed 10

Whenever I log in and restart the word training, I have to swap these two parameters (to Speed 10, min. character speed 20). This is what the program does, after all - it leaves the character speed at a constant value, but changes the effective speed depending on fail/success.*

If, on the other hand, the training programs would really send characters at a character speed of 10, and do so at an effective speed of 20 (like they seem to tell you that they do, when transferring speed information from the lessons interface)... then something would go rather very wrong, wouldn't it?

___
* ...or of course it does not change it, if you have told it not to do so).
[deleted]

Posted: 2013-11-25 10:55
As far as I understand, I disagree with Georg
I changed my CW settings to 25/5 in order to try it out.
Go to call sign training,
it says
Speed 25
minimum character speed 5
max speed 125

When I start the exercise and only push a series of 25 OK's
It starts with 25 wpm normal spaced call
next calls 24 23...6, 5, 5, 5, 5

So all calls are standard spaced, and the minimum speed is not going below 5 wpm.

It is javascript, executed in your browser, so may be the behavior is computer dependent at lzlep's QTH.
[deleted]

Posted: 2013-11-25 11:08
Rick is right, when I put in CW settings 25/7
the series becomes the same, always going down to 5 wpm.


Posted: 2013-11-25 15:28
Hi Greg,

maybe this has to do with what you expect the program to do.

I have started to practice with a rather high character speed, but at a very low effective speed. Slowly, I have increased the effective speed, but I did not touch the character speed much.

As a consequence, on a fail, I would expect the program to decrease effective speed, but not to change the character speed.

I would expect the program to start at a speed not faster than my very own maximum effective speed. This means in my case:

When I have set my character speed (at my CW settings: http://lcwo.net/cwsettings !) to 65, and the effective speed to 10, I do not expect the program to throw me into an initial effective speed of 65!


Instead, I expect the program to initially present me with exactly my settings: 65/10. On fail, I expect the character speed to remain at 65, but I expect the effective speed to drop by 1.

Thus, to prevent the program from presenting me with a (for me) ridiculously high effective speed, I have to reverse the fields "speed" and "character speed" (see my earlier post). Only after I have done so, the field "character speed" actually contains exactly the value which I have set as character speed in my CW settings!
_____

In your and Rick's case, expectations might be a bit different. But if they are different, then the program is behaving just fine and consistent with the above picture:

1. It starts with what you have set as "character speed" in your CW settings (or whichever value you tell it to use), and uses this BOTH as character AND effective speed. (Example: 65/10 in your CW settings will be 65/65 as a starting point in the trainer).

2. It reduces the effective speed AND the character speed one by one (until a minimum of 5 is reached).

3. IF (during this process of reducing effective speed) the effective speed reaches the minimum character speed you have set, it only continues to decrease the effective speed, but it does not decrease the character speed any more.

Example for 3.: You set 25character/7effective in your CW settings. After a NEW login, the program suggests 25 as speed and 7 (or 10, this seems to have changed recently) as your minimum character speed. Assume you leave "minimum character speed" at 10, as suggested, and also "speed" as suggested at 25. Then you will start at 25/25 with your first word/callsign. With each fail, this will decrease: 24/24, 23/23, 22/22... until you reach 10/10. The next one will NOT be 9/9, but 10/9 instead, because the minimum character speed is 10. Then comes 10/8, 10/7, 10/6, 10/5, and then nothing changes any further because the minimum effective speed is at 5 now.

In any case, if you want to test this, you will have to log out and log in again after making changes in your CW settings, so that the training program "forgets" what you had adjusted previously.



Posted: 2013-11-25 20:42
The word and callsign exercises have their own control parameters. They do seem to use the global character speed as their starting speed, but that's the only setting they use, and from then on they seem to be independent. They don't have distinct settings for character and word speeds, just the one speed setting...

...and they'll ignore whatever I set the minimum speed to, and go down until they get to 5wpm.
[deleted]

Posted: 2013-11-25 21:36
Georg DL1YZ

I checked it with Audacity, it is exactly as you explained.

You are right.


Posted: 2013-11-25 22:01
Rick,

yes, that basically summarizes what I have described.

However, as soon as the minimum character speed which you have set is reached, this parameter will not be decreased any further (whereas the effective speed will always be decreased until 5 is reached).

All this is assuming that you fail on each try, if you don't, then both parameters are increased again respectively by 1.


Posted: 2013-11-25 22:06
Greg,

many thanks. :-)


Posted: 2013-11-26 20:01
Ah. Time to set the minimum character speed to something much higher than the starting speed, then...
[deleted]

Posted: 2013-11-26 23:17
lzlep You finished the course , CONGRATS,
but from now on no hanky panky with effective speed and character speed. Just make them the same in CW-setup.

You are from now on riding a bike without help wheels.


Posted: 2013-11-27 13:34
ldeletedl:
lzlep You finished the course


No, I abandoned the course and learned the characters another way. Now I have speeds set equal, and Koch set at lesson 40 so that the word and callsign exercises use their full lists, not ones with half the possibilities removed...

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