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LCWO Discussion Forum [Atom LCWO Forum Feed]

This is a simple discussion forum for LCWO users. Feel free to use it for any kind of discussion related to this website.

Thread: Special characters in lessons and MorseMachine

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AuthorText


Posted: 2013-09-30 20:14
Hello,

I've just started to play around with the word training. Many of the words (German character set) contain umlauts ( and also ). Having gone through the 40 lessons, this is rather awkward, since these characters are completely new to me.

Would it please be possible to extend both the MorseMachine and the lessons with these characters?

Ideally both MorseMachine and Lessons would accept the custom character set, just like the 5-char-groups training does. This would also enable users to focus training only on those characters which need special attention (those which are "difficult").

Many thanks in advance
73 -- Georg


Posted: 2013-09-30 21:55
I do believe it is sufficient to check the box "simplify characters" to avoid Umlauts. 73 Andreas


Posted: 2013-10-01 16:34
Thank you Andreas,

but I don't want to avoid special characters - I want to have them!

In order to learn them, I have to practise them first, so I would like to have them in the MorseMachine and in the lessons please!

73 -- Georg
[deleted]

Posted: 2013-10-01 17:14
Chose in CW settings ""custom characters""

you can play code groups don't forget to switch custom characters in.


Posted: 2013-10-01 23:08
Hello Chairefone,

my request is that I would please like to have this functionality not only for the "code groups", but especially also for the Lessons (40/40 -> Custom/Custom) and for the MorseMachine!

I am hoping that this can be easily implemented, since the functionality already has been programmed for the code groups ("5er-Gruppen").

73 -- Georg

P.S. Is your "deleted" set into the absolute value to make clear that it has been deleted regardless of whether the value really is positive or negative? Or is that over-interpreting the info in your profile? :-)
[deleted]

Posted: 2014-09-09 23:57
Oops,

Missing your question, vy sri.
Better late than never.

No, I do not think it is a good idea to insert country dependent characters in the 40 lessons. because the purpose of this website is to learn international Morse code.

You are German, so you will fast be aquainted with the and in local QSO's and you can exercise them in the "Words" of this website in German.

French has other special characters, and they particularly managed to get the accented e ditditdahditdit in the international code.

So your question boils down to: must we dididahdidit include in the 40 lessons which in that case grow to 41 lessons?

Formally: Yes, Practically NO.

Your PS I do not understand, sri I am John Doe and eveybody knows me to be a sucker, that's life.


Posted: 2014-09-10 10:13
John,

if people would always only do "what the purpose is", we would still be in stone age. Do we need to build a wheel? Formally: Yes, practically NO.

Maybe the purpose of LCWO has indeed once been to teach international morse code, I do not know what the original intentions were.

But, very clearly, the custom set allows to choose special characters, and also specific languages can be trained, so currently this site obviously does offer more than just and only the international code (by the way, is there something like a globally accepted, international code, at all?).

The logical consequence of the existence of a custom set with additional characters would be to enable this custom set in the morse machine, and in the lessons as well. As stated above, this would probably not take much effort to implement (for the morse machine, I'm already using my own page code which lets me train at least some of the special characters now).

Also, it would not hurt those users who do not want to train the special characters (you can always stop at lesson 40).

73 -- Georg
[deleted]

Posted: 2014-09-10 14:42
Georg,

OK, You will be right. However this thread generated no response, over a year. DJ1YFK, the administrator who designed this site and pays for it, reads this forum sometimes, I suppose so, and did not react or implement such an extention, so I suppose administration does not support the idea for whatever reason.

May be, I guess, to prevent that offering to much will demotivate starters.
May be that different countries have different assignments for the same not international specified code group.
May be that you have to include Wabun and the Chinese telegraph code for simplified chinese.

Jede Konsequenz fhrt zum Teufel, said Goethe.

I suppose that the nationalities with the special character sets, additional to International Morse code, exercise by words and/or code groups on this website. DJ1YFK will have statistics.

When it should come to proposing additional features on this website, I think that QSO-ing via a Mumble server, like iCW, should be welcome by a lot of people, and some feature that measures the dots, dashes and spaces and give feed back in the form of a probability density function, and an automated advice about the quality of the generated code. Such as dashes too long, ditspace shorter then dit length and so on.

Sending via a mouse should be not stimulated, a simple key should be the minimum requirement. It has to work on all regular available computing devices, connected to Internet, because a website like morsecode.me , when not correct working with the contacting computer, may be very demotivating for beginners.

73 JD



Posted: 2014-09-16 19:56
Georg,
I must admit that I haven't heard any of the language specific characters yet. Being german and living in France, and having regular CW contacts with both countries in their respective languages, I think I should know. Maybe the folks chatting on 80m are different, but on 40m and up, it's really not necessary to know these characters.

Andreas F4GFT


Posted: 2014-09-16 20:57
Be glad to be able communicate in (international) Morse code with your country fellows. Using obsolete characters will have the same effect as using Phillipscodes of he kind that became out of use.

So, when DJ1YFK want to expand, I will propose a sounder course on this web site in American (also mentioned Railway) code.



Posted: 2014-09-17 10:15
Octagenarian,

the German "Umlauts" are not obsolete.

As I have mentioned before, if the tools are made configurable and accept the custom character set (as expected), then we both would be happy: I could practice the characters which constantly occur in German language, and you could choose whatever you want: The American Railway code, Ms. Marple's secret crime code or whatever else you might want to invent.

If *you* don't need something, please do not expect that everybody else doesn't need it either. Or at least, please try not to destroy the efforts of other people, even if you think that everybody else shouldn't need what you don't need. :-)
_____

Andreas:

That's nice to hear, but currently I am practicing two things simultaneously: 1., the Koch lessons at low speed (currently 20/12) and Morse Machine for accuracy, and 2., the German word set at a higher speed (60/60).

Doing 1. has started to help me considerably with 2., BUT unfortunately, both the Koch lessons AND the Morse Machine do NOT contain some of the letters which constantly and often occur in the LCWO German word list ("", "", "", "", "-"; these are all characters which are NOT obsolete). Thus, these special characters are starting to become a "bottle neck" when practicing the word list.

On a side note, it's really not necessary to know morse code *at all*. :-)


Posted: 2014-09-17 11:26
It is always a handicap when you can't program your wishes yourself. You have to use what is available. Or make a proposal and wait, wait, and wait longer, possibly a time span approaching infinity to get your wishes realized.

You can propose the program writer to add something, but you are in that case completely dependent on what the writer thinks about the idea and the time he has available.

Adding in your proposal to DJ1YFK the sentence:"If *you* don't need something, please do not expect that everybody else doesn't need it either. Or at least, please try not to destroy the efforts of other people, even if you think that everybody else shouldn't need what you don't need."

Don't expect that the writer will realize something that YOU want, because YOU think is is useful for you, and hence the writer will make it available, even when he does not plan to use it himself, and expects that only YOU will use is (or not..)

There are a large number of possibilities to reach your defined learning goal "", "", "", "", "-" ,even with the possibilities present on this website as pointed out before.

I think reactions in this thread do not have the intention to destroy or ridiculise something, but as far as I can see you, Georg, are the single and only wisher of the proposed feaatures in the time period of a year that this thread is running.

I understand that you need it for 60/60 German word exercises as you said, but your public profile mentions for many months already 1 exercise at 6 wpm. So your proposal will not be taken serious by DJ1YFK, I am afraid.

Don't worry, it is in general a good habit not to take yourself serious.



Posted: 2014-09-17 22:28
Lea,

I would suggest to leave the evaluation and decision to Fabian, and not to make any assumptions what he does, and does not take serious.

This thread had not been replied to long back and soon vanished somewhere down in the list. Now it's been resurrected by somebody after around a year, but I don't think many people have read it meantime, so I don't believe that you can make good statistics from the replies it got. I would like to add that there are other characters which people might want to be able to practice from the custom set, not only the German Umlauts. In other words, I am asking for a rather generic feature of the software, and from other forum threads I conclude that I am not the only one asking.

The sentence from me which you quote ("if you don't need something, please do not expect everybody else doesn't need it") was in reply to octagenarian (who indeed seems to do exactly that, and who likes to ridicule and put down other people's wishes for no apparent reason - read his post), and not addressed to Fabian. And as I have remarked somewhere else already, it was easy to modify the Morse Machine code in such a way that it now does let me practice the special characters I want to practice. So, I do not expect anything, nor am I as handicapped as you might think.

I have only one exercise at 6 wpm in my profile, because I am, following *your* very wish, regularly deleting all my daily training results from the highscore. Maybe you can remember that we had a discussion about that?

Be a bit more kind, please! :-)

73 -- Georg


Posted: 2014-09-18 12:28
[quote=DL1YZ]Lea,


I have only one exercise at 6 wpm in my profile, because I am, following *your* very wish, regularly deleting all my daily training results from the highscore. Maybe you can remember that we had a discussion about that?

[..]
73 -- Georg
[/quote]

Look at forum/963

I did not wish that, so I can't remember that either.

As a matter of fact the high score list has only some sense for yourself, because people excercise different. repetitions or not; fixed speed or not.
different languages with different max possible scores due to wordlength and cheaters.

Even the graphic display of ones own result is not very helpful, when the max score of a word load of 25 words is so different for each instance.

What I learned in the mean time: There is no progress. Testing a program that omits words that are immediately correct copied, learned me that missed words require sometimes a to infinite approaching number of repetitions.

That asks for a feature, kind of "I fail" key that instantly lowers the speed with 5 wpm for that word.

After a while, trying step wise to decode, one is pretty sure that the word fits your proposal.

But is keeps being wrong.

That is the disadvantage of listening, repeating, typing out, repeating in order to engrave the pattern in your mind and finally concluding after the definite enter that it is wrong.

The mind tries to match to the best supposed fit and matches to that proposal.

Looks like optical illusion pictures, that can be interpreted in two ways, well known: the old woman and the young in one picture. Much simpler a cube with 6 lines only, which edge is in front. When you match it to your proposal the other possibility is instantly masked.

When people say: You hear the envelope of the word, or you hear "syllaby" and try to compose a word out of them that fits a best proposal, it looks to me that exercising with a lower effective speed distorts the envelope or sound pattern of the word considerably.

So I am curious what your conclusions are in the meantime of exercising 60 wpm, and erasing your efforts, because of my supposed proposed desire that you delete your results, which were your best fit of your intuitive thoughts, and that is the picture you see in the optical illusion, with switching out everything that does not match the selected picture.


Posted: 2014-09-18 17:58
DL1YZ:
Lea,


The sentence from me which you quote ("if you don't need something, please do not expect everybody else doesn't need it") was in reply to octagenarian (who indeed seems to do exactly that, and who likes to ridicule and put down other people's wishes for no apparent reason - read his post)
73 -- Georg


First of all, I want to announce the fact that I was born September 18 in 1924. So today I celebrate the fact that I am now a nonagenarian instead of an octagenarian.

Everybody learning the code and passed the 90 is invited to join the user group nonagenarians, so we can cheer up the 50+ youngsters, they helplessly need that cheering up obviously , when I read their user group.

blugh

Next: I did not attack anybody, must be your interpretation of my way of expression my thoughts in English when you think so, I just want to emphasize the forum/210 also requests for American Morse code, as additional feature.

There it was downed by other people, a shame according to you, because "If *you* don't need something, please do not expect that everybody else doesn't need it either. Or at least, please try not to destroy the efforts of other people, even if you think that everybody else shouldn't need what you don't need."

OK for now, no hard feelings. I take a double Scotch in order to increase my performance for the next lesson. Helps remarkably.







Posted: 2014-10-20 22:26
Happy 90th Birthday Nonagenarian!

pd0ldb:
It is always a handicap when you can't program your wishes yourself. You have to use what is available. Or make a proposal and wait, wait, and wait longer, possibly a time span approaching infinity to get your wishes realized.

:-D Lea, I had to laugh on this. Very good.

Well, although I believe, Fabian will spank me because of this ...
Question is: Will it be possible, to custom extend MorseMachine with not so much effort?

It is...
But it won't save Stats.

This adds a new Lesson 41 to MorseMachine, so you have the new bonus-character "-".

Firefox Greasemonkey
-- 8< -- 8< -- 8< -- 8< -- 8< -- 8< -- 8< -- 8< -- 8< -- 8< -- 8< -- 8< -- 8< --
// ==UserScript==
// @name Extend MorseMachine, prove of concept.
// @author Vinz, user of lcwo.net
// @namespace http://lcwo.net/gmscripts
// @description Just prove of concept! Would it be possible to extend MorseMachine?
// @include http://lcwo.net/morsemachine
// @version 0.01
// @license present to lcwo.net
// @grant none
// ==/UserScript==

var zBarTableLine1 = document.getElementsByTagName("TABLE")[5].getElementsByTagName("TR")[0];
zBarTableLine1.innerHTML += '< td>< img src="/pics/mm-0.png" id="--0" onClick="changebar(this, event)" width="10px" height="101px">< br> < img src="/pics/mm-1.png" id="--1" onClick="changebar(this, event)" width="10px" height="0px">< /td>';
var zBarTableLine2 = document.getElementsByTagName("TABLE")[5].getElementsByTagName("TR")[1];
zBarTableLine2.innerHTML += '< td>< span id="label--">-< /span>< /td>';
kochchar.push("-");
badness["-"] = 0;
var script = document.createElement('script');
script.type = "text/javascript";
script.innerHTML = " function lessonchange (v) { lesson += v; if (lesson < 1) lesson = 1; if (lesson > 41) lesson = 41; update(); }";
document.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(script);
-- >8 -- >8 -- >8 -- >8 -- >8 -- >8 -- >8 -- >8 -- >8 -- >8 -- >8 -- >8 -- >8 --

You have to correct the HTML-Tags: "< td>".

@Fabian, you're free to delete this. :)

P.S. To finish your dispute about "What changes YOU need":
You CAN extend the MorseMachine with Umlauts also, but you need to override the playletter-function with one change to the URLs like this:
var flashurl = 'http:...'&t='+encodeURIComponent(l)


Posted: 2014-10-21 01:41
Hello Vinz,

cheers for the scripts.

A year back, a few days after nobody had reacted to this thread, I had looked at the code of the morse machine myself. But I was too lazy to write a script, so all I did was to spend a minute and hard code the necessary changes into the page source itself. Whenever I need it, I shoot the modified page code into Opera via copy/paste and "apply changes". This gives me lesson 44 with , , and . Of course it doesn't save any statistics either, but who cares.

So, personally, I'm not handicapped at all and have all I need - since long already. But maybe others here might profit either from your scripts, or from future updates to the site.

Cheers,
73 -- Georg


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