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LCWO Discussion Forum [Atom LCWO Forum Feed]

This is a simple discussion forum for LCWO users. Feel free to use it for any kind of discussion related to this website.

Thread: Sending?

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AuthorText


Posted: 2012-09-07 21:10
There is no mention of when or how to practice sending CW with a code oscillator. It seems to me this should be part of the process but I can't find any mention of sending code. Somebody know something I don't?
KJ6WEV
73


Posted: 2012-09-08 00:09
I've been looking for something like that as well, but I haven't had much luck finding anything other than physical keys that connect to your computer. So far, the most I've been able to find on the software side is this game: http://boyslife.org/games/online-games/575/morse-code-machine/

Far from ideal, but better than nothing.


Posted: 2012-09-09 21:21
You want a keyer. MFJ has several both with and without a key. http://www.mfjenterprises.com/productsearch.php


Posted: 2012-09-12 23:22
I also have the question about when to start sending. When all the lessons have been completed? Practice keying as you learn the letters?


Posted: 2012-09-13 15:15
This is one (of the many) things about learning Morse that you'll hear lots of contradictory advice about. Personally, I found there were distinct benefits in learning to send at the same time as learning to read. However, it really helps to be taught how to use the key of your choice.


Posted: 2012-09-14 22:21
I have been told by two very experienced CW ops that you should spend as much time practicing sending as you spend reading. Sending will actually help you increase your copying speed.
A good code reader will be invaluable in giving feedback as to what is heard when you send. I have a begali cw machine - pricey but extremely good like all begali products. CWget is available by dowload and is quite helpful.


Posted: 2012-09-16 13:35
CW decoding programs decide dot or dash, by taking the average duration of signal elements. That is a dit (baud as you like) A dash is 3 dits a dot is one dit, so in order to decide dot or dash the decision level is at 2 dits. Same story for spaces.

Easy to produce (computer generated) code that nobody is able to head-copy, with dashes 2.1 dit and dots 1.9 dit. Flawless machine decoding by CW get, Skimmer and what have you.

So your sending must be a torture when in the absence of noise, local loop, you get:
non existing characters (by wide space between dots and dashes of one character or glue-ing characters together by less then 2 dits character spacing)
Too much word spaces instead of letter spacings.

So, everybody is better off when you are going to use a keyboard for sending your Morse code.

Faster and hardly any cost, compared with rediculously priced SPST switches, called paddles. And I have problems to copy YOU at 20 wpm, and NOT with machine generated code at 45 wpm. How come???

How come?

You buy your radio, so when you are too stupid to homebrew something for CW only, be wise and use a keyboard when you are even too lazy to learn to sent flawless code.


Posted: 2012-09-16 14:08
I have a key and a ft-897 and I plan on using it off the air . Id like to hear any suggestions on proper use and adjustments(weight?)
Im currently stuck on lesson 10 at 15 wpm.


Posted: 2012-09-16 20:24
Well, you could of course read with CWget and send with a keyboard and make ocntacts - that would be one choice.
You can also take the time to properly learn code both send and receive, and that is another choice.

Well sent code with a key has a rhythm that is easy to listen to. The real pro who uses a straight key is, IMO, an artist.

Though I have long way to go I enjoy using my Begali Kay and I have a straight key on order.

Referring to someone as too stupid hardly advances our knowledge or advancement of the hobby.


Posted: 2012-09-17 15:45
KW4GC:


Referring to someone as too stupid hardly advances our knowledge or advancement of the hobby.


No pun intended. It was to check out moderator behaviour that omitted two times a link that I gave right here to this website forum thread, because the subject was discussed earlier.

The link was (third time typed over:)
http://lcwo.net/forum/649/CW-over-Internet
[deleted]

Posted: 2012-09-20 15:12
KW4GC:

Referring to someone as too stupid hardly advances our knowledge or advancement of the hobby.


Referring someone too stupid for this hobby and advising to go fishing in deep water, does not detract ourself from advancement in the hobby due to the temptation to the time consuming replies for that kind of questions that are generally qualified as non existent by "stupid questions don't exist" .

So the advancement in our hobby is stimulated when we get rid of those guys, asking, asking and asking, getting reply reply and reply that are inherent contradictionary.

When a guy is not able to find out for himself what he wants to know with the now available resources, he is not fit for the hobby "ham radio". Unless of course he is a CB ham just wanting to chat, and not interested at all in the supporting techniques.

Just the same with learning Morse code. Threads are not read but questions are asked again and again, by guys (and certainly proven gals) that ask and ask and ask and ask, and when they can't ask anymore they quit. So what are the persistent learners and exercisers wasting their time on those "stupid questions don't exist" people. They can waste their money earned by their obviously overpaid job by deep sea fishing better then wasting our time with answering their "s****d" questions.


Posted: 2012-10-01 06:26
I practice sending using DM780. Its the digital program that comes with Ham Radio Deluxe. I choose the line in as the sound card and DM780 will decode my keying. It helps with the rhythm and spacing. Some versions of Ham Radio Deluxe or still free. You do need a modern transceiver and a computer


Posted: 2012-10-07 03:10
STUPID QUESTIONS?
The only stupid question is the one you don't ask because you think it's stupid...
73
KJ4WGU


Posted: 2012-10-16 05:58
lzlep:
This is one (of the many) things about learning Morse that you'll hear lots of contradictory advice about. Personally, I found there were distinct benefits in learning to send at the same time as learning to read. However, it really helps to be taught how to use the key of your choice.


I remember DJ1YFK suggesting iCW and others offered skype contacts, are these still the best option to practice sending for people who don't have HF equipment or like me currently unlicensed.

Although I am still in lesson 28 so not sure its relevant to me yet.






Posted: 2012-10-30 18:46
A simple way to learn how to send is to get on the air with your radio if you are already a licensed operator. If not, K1EL makes a keyer that shows on a display what you are sending in real time. Also a group of hams have an organization called CWops and if you would like help on the air they will be happy to arrange an Elmer(An experienced CW operator) that will be assigned to specifically help you learn CW. Folks we can make anything difficult, CW is fun. Making mistakes is part of it. If you wait until you send perfectly you never will get on the air. I am 57 and started when I was 13. Set goals for yourself and by all means have fun. With Greatest respect, Rick


Posted: 2013-01-14 12:53
Now that I am finally nearing the end of the lessons, I thought I would try sending. I have a paddle and a K1EL keyer, which displays what I am sending. LCWO emphasises learning the letters as a whole sound and not dits and dahs. But how do you send without analysing the dits and dahs, especially the ones like L F Q Z , ? (This whole sound system must work because I actually had to look them up to find out the order of the dits and dahs).


Posted: 2013-01-17 18:27
Dear Catherine,

my daughter can send her name in CW with a paddle. She does not know CW, nor does she count dots. She knows the melody (sound) of the characters. However she has to use slow speed to avoid errors


As for training you may want to consider your favorite morse training program to generate characters and just repeat (immitate) them with your paddle.

Hw?

Gerd.
Administrator


Posted: 2013-01-17 19:11
df9ts:
my daughter can send her name in CW with a paddle. She does not know CW, nor does she count dots. She knows the melody (sound) of the characters. However she has to use slow speed to avoid errors

That's why my first boy will be named Tom, and my first daughter Essie. I want them to be able to send their names as soon as they are old enough to move their fingers :-)

Kidding aside; I second what Gerd said.

73
Fabian
[deleted]

Posted: 2013-01-18 10:12
fwiw, I found out the following:

Starting point: My head copy is appr. at 20/20, better on good days, in English and German. Practice is intermittent, but even after long breaks (weeks) I am "back to normal" within a few days. (I am 70, started serious practicing 2 years ago.)

I always thought sending with my paddle was a peace of cake: I took some text on paper or in my head and sent it. Never bothered. Always worked reasonably well. Like playing an instrument from a music sheet, reading ahead helped a lot with what was to come.

Until I tried Koch lessons (char. speed 20 to 25) with very wide character spacings so that I could repeat sign by sign with my paddle. Desaster! Only e, i, s, h, t, m, o, were faultless.

So, I will take up Koch lessons again, from 1 through 40 and train my reflexes at sending.

I don´t know how relevant that is to sending in a qso, but training ones reflexes at my age has an intrinsic worthwile benefit.

73, Peter
[deleted]

Posted: 2013-01-18 13:10
sri for omission on previous posting: should have added that I use a iambic keyer (h/b) together with the paddle. Peter


Posted: 2013-03-02 03:17
vk4gh:
Now that I am finally nearing the end of the lessons, I thought I would try sending. I have a paddle and a K1EL keyer, which displays what I am sending. LCWO emphasises learning the letters as a whole sound and not dits and dahs. But how do you send without analysing the dits and dahs, especially the ones like L F Q Z , ? (This whole sound system must work because I actually had to look them up to find out the order of the dits and dahs).


I was told I only had to learn to copy and sending would be no problem. But I found I had to practice both. But the reality was that I learned both at the same time. We sent code to each other to practice (sorry was in USN.) So that is the answer for me anyway. Practice both. I could copy at 25 wpm but could only send at about 5 wpm for a while. My goodness, I remember it wasn't the sending speed after a month or so of practice; it was trying to hold the complete message in my mind and spelling each word out and not loosing track of where I was. I had to write out what I was going to send before I sent it. But, yes practice practice practice developes a good fist.
So, what if you go camping and forget the computer what??? you won't set up a station?
Bob aa1cm


Posted: 2013-03-04 16:30
>That's why my first boy will be named Tom, and my first daughter Essie.

Fabian, with your nice family you should move to Pontotoc, Mississppi then and apply for the call WE5ISH :-)
Vy73 Fritz

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