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LCWO Discussion Forum [Atom LCWO Forum Feed]

This is a simple discussion forum for LCWO users. Feel free to use it for any kind of discussion related to this website.

Thread: koch finished - please advise.

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AuthorText


Posted: 2011-10-13 14:37
Hi All,

I am on the last koch lesson at speed of 10/20 and this makes me wonder how to proceed.
The koch lessons teached me to recognise the 'sound tokens' and move my fingers accordingly. But there is still a lot to learn:
- Listening on the radio learns I can copy (using the keyboard) only small parts of QSO's of speed of 18-20 wpm (and only the ones that have a good fist).
- Copying on paper is poor. Apart for my writing speed, I need way too much time to translate the 'sound token' to the appropriate character.
- Head copying is even worse. Known words of 4-5 characters (at 14/20) are decoded in some cases, but it always takes so much time that the next word is missed. Actually, translating sound tokens into characters is a consciously action which prevents me from remembering characters and forming words.

My goal is to master CW reading without keyboard and just paper for stuff like callsign, at a speed of 20/20.
What would be the best way to achieve this?
Any advice would be appreciated!

Joep


Posted: 2011-10-13 19:00
I don't know what will work. I do know that trying exercises with a big difference between character speed and word speed was, if not actually bad for me, certainly not much good.

How about trying word training or call sign training (or even the last koch lesson) bringing the two speeds much closer together? Instead of 10/20, perhaps 12/18, or 14/16, or 15/15?


Posted: 2011-10-14 20:23
Hi Rick,

Thanks for the advice! Increasing the effective speed is obvious and it might be a good idea to reduce the character speed too to get to normal proportions.
Still have to make up a plan to get rid of the keyboard...

Joep


Posted: 2011-10-15 21:47
Joep

In my humble experience you are trying too many methods and techniques. Please consider simplification.

It seems your goal is to hand copy words and call signs. Consider useing LCWO Word Training and Call Sign training programs in LCWO Speed Practice. Also consider useing a consistant character speed of 20 and word speed of 12 or something in that range. Always keep character speed above word speed.

LCWO Forum feed back for me suggested recording sessions on MP3 for daily or commuter playback.

In my experience nothing beats on line training. Meaning many sessions at speeds that seem to resonate with you.

Finally, get on the air at least with a receiver and listen, particularly on bands 80M, 40M and 15M. If you have a high band receiver use 6M and 2M. You will find CW QSO's and rag chews at a great range of speeds, something will be there for you.

73
KJ4WGU


Posted: 2011-10-16 10:00
Hi Mike,

Thanks for the reply.

KJ4WGU:
In my humble experience you are trying too many methods and techniques. Please consider simplification.

Until now, lcwo-koch at 10/20 was (and still is) my primary line of line of training. Commuting time listing on mp3 is extra.
My question is what the primary line of training should be when I finished lcwo-koch at 10/12...

KJ4WGU:
It seems your goal is to hand copy words and call signs. Consider useing LCWO Word Training and Call Sign training programs in LCWO Speed Practice. Also consider useing a consistant character speed of 20 and word speed of 12 or something in that range.

What I experience is that paper- or head-copy is significantly worse than keyboard copy. As a matter of fact, keyboard practice does not seem to link the sound token to the letter in my head. This is my main concern. Are you saying that this will change when I continue to practice keyboard-copy?

KJ4WGU:
Always keep character speed above word speed.

Would you care to elaborate on that? I'd say the ultimate goal is to get them equal?

KJ4WGU:
In my experience nothing beats on line training. Meaning many sessions at speeds that seem to resonate with you.

I'll give that a try!

KJ4WGU:
Finally, get on the air at least with a receiver and listen, particularly on bands 80M, 40M and 15M. If you have a high band receiver use 6M and 2M. You will find CW QSO's and rag chews at a great range of speeds, something will be there for you.

I'm working on that. I only have some 2M equimpent available, but this band is very quite down here. I've been listening to perseus receivers troughout the world, which is nice. The software will expire shortly, so i'll have get my own Perseus receiver soon ;)

Thanks again,
Joep


Posted: 2011-10-16 12:51
Hi Joep,

I'm also still learning and have very similar objectives like you.

After finishing Koch I had also the experience, that copying only by head was nearly impossible.

Then I startet hearing a unknown text with extra word spacing.
If you use ebook2cw it will be the -W switch.

For me it was importand to have an interesting story which I don't know. So I searched a short-krimestory, put it into parts and translated it with ebook2cw with increasing speeds.

One 'chapter' is about 15 minutes. I hear it every night, when I go to bed and I switch only to the next (faster) chapter, if I understood every word.

After finishing this text I will try a morse audiobook like Pendeen Lighthouse (german: http://dm3da.tuxomania.net/m.pendeen.html) to get used to real QSO.

Hope, that this will help you,

73
Carsten



Posted: 2011-10-16 18:57
jsuijs:
Would you care to elaborate on that? I'd say the ultimate goal is to get them equal?


Yes, that sounds logical.

I think there may be some confusion because you've given the speeds as (for example) 10/20. I've assumed you mean 10 words per minute but with characters at 20wpm-effective speed, but some folk might expect to see the character speed first , like 20/10.

I gave up direct keyboard entry, and now do the exercises by first writing what I think I've heard on paper, because, somehow, this gets me closer to associating sounds and letters than the typing did. I suspect speaking into a recorder would be even better, except that then there'd be a clash of audio, voice with morse...


Posted: 2011-10-17 08:37
jsuijs:
I'm working on that. I only have some 2M equimpent available, but this band is very quite down here.Joep


Joep, if you want to try something on 2 mtrs CW please give a sign. I am still practising too, and it would be great fun and exercise to work you on 2. I can run about 100 watts into a 16el Tonna, which should cover most of PA in normal condx. QRS to any speed you want.



Posted: 2011-10-17 17:29
@Carsten
At what speed did you start?
Even at 20/10, I need full attention to copy only part of the letters, leaving hardly non to remember them and merge them into words.
Did you experience this to? And how did you overcome this?

@Rick
You might be right at the speed notation, sorry for the confusion.
I'll give writing down a try!

@Alex
Good idea! Sent you a PM.

Joep





Posted: 2011-10-23 11:46
Hi Joep,

I started my audiobook sessions with 20/5 and an extra Word spacing. So I had a little time to think about the word.

% ebook2cw -w 20 -e 5 -W 1 shortstory.txt

Every chapter I made it a litte bit faster. Fist I get rid of the extra word-spacing and then I increased the effective speed one by one.

73
Carsten


Posted: 2011-10-23 21:45
Hi Carsten,

Thanks for the details, I will give extra word spacing a try.
I've been listening and writing for a week now. It is quite a challenge compared to keyboard copy. And performance measurement is lacking, so hard to tell if there is progress...

73, Joep


Posted: 2011-10-24 07:27
hmmm... If you are hearing a text that make sense - after understanding every word of a chapter, you know your progress and can continue to the next, faster chapter.

I think it's a good idea to start with a speed which let you understand at least 30% of the text.


Posted: 2011-10-24 15:58
You are right.
I should have said 'Ihave been listening and writing *on air*' and hence lack reference to determine progress. Using your methode, progress can be measured.

Joep

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