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LCWO Discussion Forum [Atom LCWO Forum Feed]

This is a simple discussion forum for LCWO users. Feel free to use it for any kind of discussion related to this website.

Thread: Order of characters in Koch lessons

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Posted: 2011-09-01 15:14
What's the logic behind the ordering of the characters in the Koch lessons? I do wonder rather whether it's been chosen to maximise frustration sometimes...

Posted: 2011-09-06 20:23
It is quite frustration when each new character - to some extend - messes up all the skills you've learned before. I guess this is a consequence of the choosen methode...
The good thing is that within a reasonable ammount of time, you're able to copy again. I'd rather have this than weeks without progress, mentioned in stories of the old learning appoach (learn all chars at 5wpm and then speed-up).

Good luck!

Posted: 2011-09-06 21:43
My latest frustration came when S was added straight after E. They're both on the short side, so they push the effective speed up, and I can only write so fast. (Never mind my confusing S with U and EEE...) (Oh, and I seem doomed to take weeks to learn each new letter, whatever the speed, so I'm trying to go as fast as I can write.)

Posted: 2011-09-07 15:05
One observation is that effort for each letter varies like a saw tooth. With each lesson, effort (time required) increases, up to a point where it becomes significant (hardly any progress). At that point I use codegroups with the most difficult (mostly latest added) letters. First exercises have extremely low accuracy, but accuracy steadily increase. Once the most difficult letters are done with codegroups, passing that particular lesson is much easier. The next lesson requires even less effort, but from that, effort increases again with each lesson.

Another observation - as I said - is similar to what you describe: a new letter might be difficult to distinct from previous learned ones. S and E are examples in consecutive lessons. But I had similar experience with adding H between the existing 5 and S. It took me a dozen codegroups with combinations of the three, only to hear the difference. Currently (passed that lesson and working on the next one), this isn't an issue any more though and this makes me confident I will finish this properly in the end!

Posted: 2011-09-08 11:11
More than half my trouble with this lesson is that E and S are so short, time-wise. If one of the random groups contains several Es and Ss then I'll miss the next group or two because I don't have time to write the one I've just heard down.

Doesn't help that, typically, my first or second attempt of the day is usually the best, and the longer I work at it the worse I get...

Posted: 2011-09-15 07:27

The suggested sequence for Koch, according to the article here: http://www.qsl.net/kb5wck/super.html is as follows:

W I . N J E F 0 Y ,
V G 5 / Q 9 Z H 3 8
B ? 4 2 7 C 1 D 6 X

What is the letter sequence for LCWO based on?

Is there a difference?

Posted: 2011-09-17 14:53
LCWO uses this sequence:

L W I . J Z = F O Y ,
V G 5 / Q 9 2 H 3 8
B ? 4 7 C 1 D 6 0 X

...so yes, there are some significant differences.

Posted: 2011-09-19 18:10
If you would like to use an other sequence, you could use 'code groups' for practice...

Posted: 2011-09-19 22:15
Indeed... but the odd differences puzzle me. Presumably somebody made the changes for a reason. The one that's breaking me is "E", as it's so short, and right next to "S", and...

Posted: 2011-09-20 06:16
I remember - effective speeds over 13wpm. You could reduce the speed to 9/20 or so to get the effective speed a bit towards 10wmp until longer chars are added...

Posted: 2011-09-20 07:27
Actually, I was wondering if there were any pedagogical difference in the LCWO's sequence of letter compared to the other sequence used by other Koch method teaching software.

I do most of my CW learning through LCWO but sometimes I have no Internet access or poor Internet connection and I use JustLearnMorseCode or G4FON's Koch Morse Trainer. The only issue is that the sequences are different.

Posted: 2011-09-20 22:08
I remember - effective speeds over 13wpm. You could reduce the speed to 9/20 or so to get the effective speed a bit towards 10wmp until longer chars are added...

The catch (for me) is that if the effective speed is as low as 10wpm then, even if the characters are presented a good deal faster, I have time to de-construct them into dashes and dots. I do adjust the speed to keep the exercises close to my maximum writable speed (about 70 characters per minute). For exercise 3 that was 16/16. for 4 and 5 it's 14/14.

Posted: 2011-09-23 19:02
First of all: Thanks for the great site.

I often use my IPhone to train CW. Especially in the train I have no other chance.

It would be really benefical to have the same order of characters like in other Koch based training applications.

Is there a chance to switch the order or even better to make it configurable?


Posted: 2011-09-30 17:45
Hi everyone,

there seem indeed to be different orders of the letters for the Koch course. I used the order given by DF2OK at http://www.df2ok.privat.t-online.de/afu01a.htm

It's not a big deal to make it customizable, in fact there's one array with all the characters which is used everywhere on LCWO, and making it user-definable would solve all these problems.

Look for some new stuff on the CW Options page some time next week!

Fabian DJ1YFK

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