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LCWO Discussion Forum [Atom LCWO Forum Feed]

This is a simple discussion forum for LCWO users. Feel free to use it for any kind of discussion related to this website.

Thread: Frustrating when new character introduced!

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Posted: 2011-03-22 19:11
Just got onto lesson 4 where 'E' is introduced. I am finding it very difficult to detect 'E' as due to the short 'Dit' I am finding I miss it, then seem to miss the following letters. This then throws out the sequence and I get in a real muddle! I also find it quite difficult doing the process 'Ah letter R press R on keyboard' by which time the next letter has come along. I guess once I get over that thought process and it becomes almost instinctive over which letter it is then this will no longer be a problem.
Determined to persevere as I should have kept up the code after learning 5wpm 11 years ago.

Posted: 2011-03-23 00:07
Hi Charlie,

When you get some time, make yourself a few mp3 files with random letters that you know already and just listen to your mp3 player while you are are doing duties around the house. No typing involved just listening.

Play the mp3 files and listen for just 5 minutes and no longer so your brain can rest and retain what it has just heard. Throughout the day listen to your mp3 player a few times with this short burst and lots of rest in between.


Craig, AH8DX

Posted: 2011-03-24 21:09

thanks for the advice, sounds a good idea. Will have to borrow my daughters MP3 player as I haven't yet caught up with that mobile audio technology!
Missed doing a lesson yesterday as my cable modem was playing up so I expect to be re-learning some letters tonight

Kind regards


Posted: 2011-03-29 12:51
I also have accuracy drops every time I introduce a new character. Moreover,if I don't slow down the word speed, I can't go on.
When I start the new lesson I have to reduce to 20/6, because the new character makes me lose my way.
The day after i turn it back to 20/7, than 20/8 again. I tried to speed up to 20/9 but it takes ages to reduce errors below 10%.
As advised here by the owner and another member, I never slow down the character speed and sometimes I give myself a break doing some "morse machine".
My goal is finish all lessons by now, then I will climb to 20/10. Nobody is running after me, it will take the time I need.

Posted: 2011-03-29 14:13
Riccardo and Charlie,

I am not an expert just a very hard worker.

Never work backwards; always work ahead!!!

My experience tells me that you must (force speed) which is very painful and frustrating. It is so painful that you want to give up but if you persist, one morning you will wake up to do your daily cw practice and copy these higher speeds because your brain is getting use to these higher speeds.

You must listen to each character thousands and thousands of times for it to finally imprint the charcter sound pattern into your brain.

This is why making yourself mp3 files is so valuable. You must push yourself and your brain will get use to its new life.

Always go forward and never backwards.

Craig, AH8DX

Posted: 2011-03-29 16:42

When you drive a nail in wood, you only move the hammer direction nail, never backwards and doing it again?

The battering ram method is a well know method to study a new field in science.


Posted: 2011-03-29 17:28

Take your battering ram and stick it where the sun does't shine and next time sign in with your real name, you coward.

Craig, AH8DX

Posted: 2011-03-29 17:31
Funny Take your battering ram and stick it where the sun does't shine and next time sign in with your real name, you coward. Craig, AH8DX

Sri this is not the way to discuss matters here, I shall not follow you on this path.


Posted: 2011-03-29 17:42

Just by signing in under test does not mislead anyone because one can track who you are by your stupid degrading analogies that follow you around on this website.

Nice constructive criticism is needed, not districtive criticism attacking everyone that asks a question for guidance.

Craig, AH8DX


Posted: 2011-03-30 12:01
AH8DX and N7KG in CW QSO:

Posted: 2011-03-31 19:24
Very funny coward. I wouldn't waste the time of day watching your garbage on the internet. A virus is probably attached to it.

Go away moron.

Craig, AH8DX

Posted: 2011-03-31 20:34
Would you please be so kind not to abuse this website with this kind of garbage?

Very funny coward. I wouldn't waste the time of day watching your garbage on the internet. A virus is probably attached to it.

Go away moron.

Craig, AH8DX

Thank you

Posted: 2011-03-31 21:31
Stop your nonsnense.

Craig, AH8DX

Posted: 2011-04-01 00:04
Craig, that is the way I climb, add one character and slow down to get it, then I go up again. Number of characters increases and I will reach my goal. This is my hobby, I don't call it work.
Not all brains work exactly the same.
I don't look back, I'm just a slow brained... ah ah
73 from Italy

Posted: 2011-04-01 01:24
I understand Riccardo.

I just wanted to emphasize to keep pushing forward.

You ever listen to the characters that you have learned about 5wpm faster every day for a couple of weeks and then when you come back to the speed that you were working on, it then seems slow?

Craig, AH8DX

Posted: 2011-04-01 03:25
I would like to apologize to AH8DX and to all users of this site for my past behavior. I have signed in using many different log on's and am here to come clean to everyone.

I promise to be on my best behavior.


Posted: 2011-04-01 12:52
uhm? not sure I got your question...
it happens like this:
I reach 0% errors at 20/8 speed at lesson 7
When I add the 8th character, the new character is not well known by my brain, so it makes me break the rythm and loose all others
The percentage is so bad that it doesn't make a real statistic, If I was in a qso I could not get even half of the meaning.
So first I try 20/8 anyway, if I succeed, I proceed, but if it's meaningless I reduce to 20/7.
Sometimes I make some experiments like increase/decrease like 21/7.
In the future I'm sure I will increase with no pain, just relaxing.
It happened when I started learning english from zero level, with only french studied at school.

Posted: 2011-04-01 12:54
test user... are we sure he's the same user? ah ah
Craig, will you forgive him?

Posted: 2011-04-01 13:23
I use fixed group sizes. Ideally 5 character groups would be good, I guess, but when I have trouble with a new character I leave the speed where it is, and instead cut the group size down to 4 or 3 character groups. I think things would have to be very bad for me to cut them as low as 2 character groups, but I won't entirely rule out the possibility...

Posted: 2011-04-01 15:55
test user... are we sure he's the same user? ah ah
Craig, will you forgive him?

OK, in the lcwo website log this test user had the same IP as Craig, so your guess is correct, but we want to keep this website nice without flames, so please don't challenge him.

CW and Peace forever.

Three possibilities: when you proceed to the next lesson with te result that you have a fall back in performance:

1. Just keep speed as usual and exercise till on 90% again.
2. slow back the effective speed (20/10 to 20/5 or what have you) and try by exercising to grow back to 20/10 90%
3. Go back to shorter groups same speed a/b and increase them to 5 by exercising. Each time you get 90% with the limited length group: lengthen it by one more character.

I think #1. is a bad choice, because it is frustrating and you learn nothing from charactergroups totally missed.

2. is much better and 3 is the best because you train your character buffer in your head to remember more then one character.

But I hesitate and am not sure whether 2 or 3 is the best choice.

Try both methods and you find out. Please report your results here for the benefit of other users.

Posted: 2011-04-02 08:25
I'll report my results. I believe that best choice between 2 and 3 really depends on everyone brain.
Now my statistics are public, but I'm only taking lessons, little by little every day, don't know whether my stats graphic appears.
Don't laugh at my results... ;-D

Posted: 2011-04-02 10:20
Tried few minutes ago, speeding up to 21/9. Errors are 66%. That will not produce my brain to get used to the sounds. Still have to work on 20/8, errors oscillating between 20% and 10% (I'm tired) but I can work on it.
I will not switch to next lesson when I have few spots of 90% accuracy, will wait for steady and continuous performance above 95 and some 0% errors.

Posted: 2011-04-02 19:29
Father BR (Battering Ram),

A very good friend of mine has given me access to the lcwo web log and I have watched which IP Address you have used to make posts on this website and it appears you are addicted.

Practice what you preach Father: do not feed your addiction, stay off!

Again, as I said before, you are fooling only yourself.

I will expose your callsign here when I get sick and tired of your abuse.

Craig, AH8DX

Posted: 2011-04-03 12:51
Oh, my IP address, that's no secret. it is
Does that match the data you collected from DJ1YFK or whoever?

I suppose so.

I gathered "test" 2011-04-01 05:25 as


Posted: 2011-04-04 15:31
"test" wasn't and regardless of that, of course I do not give anyone access to the logfiles.

Posted: 2011-04-06 01:36
I find it hard not to count dots and dashes but lean the sound of each character. I always find myself counting which slows me down and gets me confused. I just don't know how I will be able to get to the speeds I hear on the bands.

Posted: 2011-04-06 10:35
Hi teaisstronger.

What speed are you using?. In order to learn morse code as sound pattern set the charackter speed to at least 15-20 wpm. This means that you will be able to hear the sound patterns without having time to count the dits and dahs. This is a very common error for new people who wants to learn morse code. They set the speed to low. You can set the effective speed lower, say 10wpm. When I started to learn morse code i set the speed to 18/12. I later increased the speed to 20/15. Today I'm able to copy morse code at 20wpm easily, and 30+wpm on callsign trainign in LCWO and RufzXP.

Good luck in learning Morse code, And remember: Learning Morse code is EASY.

73 de LA3AKA

It's so hard when I have to, and so easy when I want to. ~Annie Gottlier

Posted: 2011-04-21 03:49
I find that using the MorseMachine helps, but that it gives much more space (Farnsworth) than the actual lesson, so when I go to do the lesson, I have problems.

I suddenly find myself thinking about a character, then I'm quickly left behind. I'm at 20/7 at the moment.

I also use a MFJ Morse tutor box set to the same characters and find I have to set it faster than the settings on here to get the same speed.
73 de VE6PDB

Posted: 2011-04-21 09:05
20/7 means roughly 2 seconds between characters.

That looks like a lot of thinking...

To me that would indicate that the learned characters need more practising to know them better before proceeding.



Posted: 2011-04-22 10:51
The wpm speed setting is fairly approximate. When you check your exercise, look for the actual wpm speed it reports.

(More in this thread: http://lcwo.net/forum/553/real-vs-effective-speed )

Posted: 2011-04-23 10:18
20/7 means roughly 2 seconds between characters.



20/7 means letterspacing at 7wpm
7wpm= 7 times 5/6 dits per second

Hence a letterspacing (3 dits) is
18/35 s and hence half a second, not 2!

Correct me please when I am wrong.


Posted: 2011-04-23 12:33
In the CW settings effective speed and character speed can be set - word spacing can not be set.

My best guess is that 20/7 is 20WPM character speed at 7WPM effective speed

7WPM is roughly a character every 2 seconds. The characters will be roughly .6 seconds long.

I maintain that there is alot of space for thinking which may indicate the letters are not trained well yet.

If anything above is wrong my apologies. Back to CW ;-)


Posted: 2011-04-23 16:29
Hi Father,

Have a "Happy Easter".

CW Forever!

Craig, AH8DX

Posted: 2011-04-25 04:23
I don't know about the effective speed thing. Even at 20/7, it seemed to blaze along, nothing like 2 seconds between characters. I have been working on the same characters at a much faster rate in this and other tools and it has taken a *lot* to begin to break old habits that other programs had used like sound-a-like words etc. I guess I should have done this when I was a lot younger too!

Posted: 2011-04-25 08:52

May I suggest you just go to a lower setting at which you are comfortable copying and slightly increase out of your comfort zone rather than beeing way out of what you can copy.

Don't worry about absolute speed figures.



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