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Who is online? (17)

LCWO Discussion Forum [Atom LCWO Forum Feed]

This is a simple discussion forum for LCWO users. Feel free to use it for any kind of discussion related to this website.

Thread: New to CW

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Posted: 2010-03-14 03:32
I'm starting to learn CW and this site is just what I was looking for. I am taking a quick break between lesson 1 and 2 and thought I'd say hello.

Posted: 2010-03-14 04:04

You are in for the ride of your life.

You have landed on the best cw site around in my opinion. You will get plenty of great advice; all that you have to do is ask.

The dumbest question is the one that isn't asked.

Good luck and practice, practice, practice.

Craig, AH8DX

Posted: 2010-03-14 04:15
Thanks Craig, I'm looking forward to it. I've got lesson 1 set to 5 minute rounds and am at around 98% copy so I'm hoping to add the third letter soon.

Would it be good to get paddles and start practicing sending the letters at the same time or is it better to wait till copy is good first?

Jake, KE5ZZN

Posted: 2010-03-14 05:41
Jake (KE5ZZN),

Other guys will offer their opinion shortly.

My advice is to (STAY FOCUSED). Do not bite off more than you can chew. Don't worry about anything else right now but hearing what these letters and numbers sound like.

Taking baby steps right now is very important. You must walk before you can run.

I got to run, take care.

Craig, AH8DX

Posted: 2010-03-14 20:39

Fist of all welcome,
Abt ur question.
Opinions are different. I give you the idea:
Don't touch paddles before you know precisely how cw sounds. That is of great importance because the letter and wordspacings you have to estimate yourself, and those make the difference between quality CW that you can copy at high speed and rubbish.
Because the lessons are wide spread code, my advice is don't touch a key or a paddle
Try to read a hand written letter from your grandmother, compare your reading speed with that of printed text, and you understand what I mean.

Posted: 2010-03-15 04:09
Thanks for the advice, it's well taken. I'll just keep working on the lessons. It's going to take some work, adding the third letter in lesson two is taking some heavy concentration to copy correctly.

Posted: 2010-03-19 02:21
Jake (KE5ZZN),

Keep going Jake, you are making progress.

If you get frustrated some times, just take a break and do some other stuff. Your brain will now retain every letter and number that your ears have heard with repitition.

Kiss that girlfriend goodbye because cw is more important right now. Welcome to your new life!

Craig, AH8DX

Posted: 2010-03-19 03:20
Man I just started and this is really hard. My ears just cannot work that fast. I can barely even tell the difference between the dots and dashes let alone type them in fast enough to keep up. Is there a way the slow the program down at all?

Posted: 2010-03-19 03:27
Nevermind I figured it out. Thanks anyways. Much more managable at half speed.

Posted: 2010-03-19 11:15
Keep the speed at 20 if possible, widen the effective speed gaps, but dont proceed to the next lesson before your speed is 20 and ur effective speed 10.

Posted: 2010-03-19 18:15
Still going strong. I have supplemented training here with the K7QO code course in the car. I'm still pretty slow but I've learned to recognize about 10 letters now.

Posted: 2010-03-20 11:30
The car is splendid to exercise copy by head.
Especially plain understandable text.

Early in the course, I think it is better to make a recording of this course,
because K7QO learns with another character sequence. So at the start of the course that may be embarrassing, later on when you master all characters, figures and puntuation, it is no problem.

Posted: 2010-03-21 17:09
Thanks for the advice digibeet. I very well may make a recording from the lessons here as well for the car.

Posted: 2010-03-26 21:31
Hello everyone, name is Stu AF6IT. Excited to see something I can fill my breaks with while at work. I really like this approach, though am curious as to why the effective 10wpm is pushed so early? I totally appreciate the Koch approach, but I don't process auditory input rapidly enough yet- even for characters I already know. (I'm not naturally wired as an auditory learner- I am visual/tactile for those who are into learning styles). For now I've slowed down the effective speed. Another question- do those who learn by copying this rapidly have trouble in QSO's with slower operators? I regrettably put off CW for awhile when it was still a license requirement because I was frustrated at the local VE who refused to accommodate Koch learners. The fellow in charge has a PHD yet didn't even know what Koch was! Anyway, still determined to finally finish this task- more enthusiastic than ever this time around!

Posted: 2010-03-27 00:31
Welcome here at this exciting website, there is also somewhere on Internet a website where you can learn speed-reading hieroglyphes.

visual tactile learning is very good when you are dating regularly.

Concerning CW: There are different opinions, it is not so critical. Only thing that seems very bad is learning morse visual, so remembering dots and dashes as written on paper, and when you hear a morse sign first translating the sounds in your visual picture an then from there translating in a written latin character. That is strictly prohibited, because then your speed will be limited to 8 or 10 wpm. Faster is the concious mind not able to process all those steps in a sequence in the short allowed time between two adjacent received characters. Also counting dots is strictly prohibited, because it limits your speed to your counting speed and uses your slower concious mind.

All those things you can forget about, when you start a course here, because the characters are transmitted at a speed that demotivate counting of dots from the beginning, and between characters more time is allowed to react with the translation.

20/10 are the speeds, but there are also people working with 15 character speed and 5 effective speed 15/5. Watch the page topscores and you can figure that out.

20/10 is not bad, we have here a french guy F0CYA just finishing his last lesson 40 at speed 20/10 and now he already was running words piecewise with a topspeed of 37 wpm. So 20/10 is surely a very good choice as the point you have to copy 90% correct before you proceed to the next lesson.

Yes, even a PhD does not know e verything. But one thing for sure, you have learned listening to speech, that you do not tactile or visual but directly via sound to knowledge of what is said.

The same with CW. No visual and no tactile aids.

However I know of an experiments holding an electrically driven dildo in the left hand and looking in a LED lamp. Both switched on and off in the rithm of the morse that he heard in the headphones. The proceedings were amazing. It helps to learn visual and tactile together with sound, the learning period to become proficient was only 22% of the normal average required exercising time in those experiments.

Posted: 2010-03-30 04:21

You asked the question:

"do those who learn by copying this rapidly have trouble in QSO's with slower operators?"

You can look at my profile to see what speeds I am doing since I make my profile public. From my experience only, I have noticed that I love working pile-ups at around 32wpm and if there are slower guys in there, say around 15wpm, if there signal is louder than most of the pile-up, my ears adjust and focus in on that signal even while higher speed guys are calling.

On the other hand, if I am working a pile-up of guys all hovering in the upper 20's - lower 30's and a strong signal comes to the pile-up at 40+wpm, my ears lately have been gravitating to those faster call signs. It appears as I get up in speed, my ears yearn for the faster guys calling.

This is just me though.

Craig, AH8DX

Posted: 2010-04-03 14:03
Arrived at 28/11 and in the toplist callsigns.Training max. 1 Hr/day
Buy myself a beer.

Posted: 2010-04-03 21:04
26 wpm in 57 exercises call sign and you started with 14 wpm, thats nice. Over 1700 exercises Koch shows you are a dedicated worker.

Retired to early !
Congrats Jack

Posted: 2010-04-18 05:46
110 exercises on lesson 2 still can not react fast enough. When should I give up?

Posted: 2010-04-18 06:45

Giving up is a human reaction. I am experiencing it right now as I approach 50wpm with a high speed of 62wpm copied.

Hang in there and maybe take a little break. You will always retain what your brain has learnede so far. Your brain is being re-wired to these new sounds and one of these days, it is going to click as it did for me at 10, 20, 30, 40 and now 50 or so wpm.

Craig, AH8DX

Posted: 2010-04-18 16:03
I just opened a new user group. Old Hams learning code. If you fit, pls post your comments.

Posted: 2010-04-18 21:40
I see that I am very good in CW, everywhere in the top scores, amazing, is't it?

Mr Donald Lunsford, when you do not react fast enough, you have to lower your effective speed in your settings to 5 or 4. That will help. Increase it 1 when you copy more than 90% ok, do not advance to the next lesson before you have slowly increased your effective speed in littke steps to 10

It is not that I am such an expert, but browsing around on this forum you can find this kind of advice, I just reproduce what I read here.

Posted: 2010-04-18 22:35
The 1967retread came from another hobby, flying after a 25 year layoff. Had an old friend who was a ham Floyd Parker. Passed on many years ago.

Posted: 2010-04-21 00:31
I find the reaction speed issue is in large part due to my maximum typing (or hand-writing) speed. I can sensibly type at about thirty words a minute, but that's when I know ahead of time what I want to type. Hearing CW and typing in what you hear is a much slower process; on a good day I can manage maybe half that. On a normal day it's nearer a quarter, so I'm probably never going to get successful Koch lesson results at speeds faster than 15wpm; I simply can't type (or write by hand) random strings of characters any faster than that. I just hope that copying actual conversation works better for me when I eventually manage to learn enough letters...

Posted: 2010-04-21 01:02

I do not know how to type like many other people.

You have made this an obsticle in your mind now and that is a negative.

Throw the keyboard and pencil away and learn how to copy in your head and learn to copy behind. If the cw is coming at me at 50wpm or so I can still take my sweet time to enter into the keyboard what I just copied in my head.

It's as simple as that.

Change your thinking today and repeat to yourself that you can do anything you set your subconscious mind to do. I have no barriers or obsticles to get in my way.

Craig, AH8DX

Posted: 2010-04-21 11:19
Hello folks!
My name is Tom and my call is KC8TBY. Although I have had my ticket for a number of years, and have upgraded to general class about two years back, I am just now trying to learn the code!
This site was recommended to me as a great tool for me to use and, well, so far I have been very impressed! (Now I can only hope that I have the "ear" as well as the discipline necessary to actually learn the code!) By the way, I'm a youngster...just 58 years old! So, wish this "old guy" good luck as he tries to buckle down and learn cw!!

Posted: 2010-04-21 11:25
By the way Craig , I appreciate the advice that you passed along to another one of us who is also just starting out learning the code. I am also one of those hams who has always thought that I might not be able to learn to copy, let alone learn it well enough to send! I appreciate your words of advice "...CHANGE YOUR THINKING AND REPEAT TO YOURSELF THAT YOU CAN DO ANYTHING YOU SET YOUR SUBCONSCIOUS MIND TO DO."
Good advice, Craig, thanks!


Posted: 2010-04-30 09:53
All your spare time spending with saying to yourself that you can, Tom KC8TBY ?

Monkey talk that doesn't work obviously, as could be expected.

I still see no progress. You have nothing to say yourself you just do ONE exercise a day, doesn't take 5 minutes, does it?

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

When you can't do such a little thing that you plan ahead, you better stop, because planning and not performing anything makes a human not different from an animal.

It is a blessing that you can't buy CW proficiency just as buying a transmitter, because for that reason you meet in the CW bands only the people that have the personality to persistently exercise and make their plans true.

Posted: 2010-05-02 01:09
With the Koch lessons I'm not going to be able to check whether I'm copying correctly unless I type my copy in, so I've got to type or write down what I hear. Once I've learned the alphabet then maybe I take a different approach, but until then I don't have the luxury. I have to go no faster than the slowest camel in the caravan.

Posted: 2010-05-02 02:10
No problem,

It are different proficiencies to copy morse in your head, or with a mill (typewriter) or with a pen.

Write longhand, not capitala as separated characters.

My opinion is that you best copy on paper with a pen, and after the exercise type it over in the window when you want to check the results only, because otherwise you don't learn copy by pen, and that is most used, for tests and examinations. Furthermore it is actually strange to copy morse and needing a (typing) machine.

Start with paper, when you passed lesson 40 try copy by head, and finally take the mill when you want. (You fall than probably initially back on half your speed, when you master already touch typing)


Posted: 2010-05-03 22:28
Yeah, I was coming to the conclusion that paper'd be better, as it's easier to leave gaps for the characters I miss...

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