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Who is online? (19)


LCWO Discussion Forum [Atom LCWO Forum Feed]

This is a simple discussion forum for LCWO users. Feel free to use it for any kind of discussion related to this website.

Thread: WPM or symbols?

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AuthorText


Posted: 2022-07-15 21:20
Hi everybody

I'm new here and i'm wondering what should I do first: learn all the sighs on low speed and rise the speed up? Or start a new lesson only after successful highspeed training so I get used to high speed from the beginning? Can you tell me which way you're training?


Posted: 2022-07-15 23:22


Depends how good you are ( aptitude is probably the most important factor ).

You are at exercise 9 after a week
so
you either have fairly high aptitude
or
it's not quite sinking in properly and you will maybe stall a bit in a couple more chars tine.


We know nothing about you or how good you are so we can only pass on hints about problems other people caused them selves - mainly from too high expectations of how quick it is to learn; I think anyway.


On the whole though, most people have a ( fairly) hard time and give up ( sometimes several times ) - going too fast being a good candidate for the main reason.


So our "advice" to ordinary - medium/low aptitude people tends to be:-

You are trying to build an automatic responce - hear code -> letter pops into your head without thinking about it.

This comes from repeated decoding - again again again until it is part of you - like driving - Brucerducer's fave metaphor - though reading might be better one.


If it doesn't sink in and become a learned responce you will get to lesson 10 or so on short term memory and then stall.


The Professional Marine operators motto was accuracy is everything - speed isn't . . .

You won't go faster than you full potential - just like running - so you need to decide what is important to you in the light of what your aptitude actually is.



So antway, get through all the exercises with several 90%-es before moving on - so it all sank in properly.

Try to keep the char speed 15wpm or 20wpm minimum if you can . . .

Then worry about speed which will come with practice.



On the other hand - if you think you have higher aptitude -

why not learn at the speed you want to use 25/25wpm etc as advised by G4FON https://www.g4fon.net/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBmuoLUV1LM&t=991s


My guess is you would know . . in a couple of exercises anyway.



Some people want to be a high speed operator or not CW at all. What about you ?



If you don't know how much aptitude you have then look at it this way -

go too slow ( high aptitude ) = waste a bit of time getting to 25/25 or 30/30

go too fast ( lower/normal aptitude ) = didn't sink in properly = stall at lesson 10+ and have to start again, fed up, give up, back in 5 - 10 years


More "advice" on its way from some other people . . .

YMMV

Good luck anyway . . .

Let us know how you get on


cb








Posted: 2022-07-16 00:15
Do the lessons, starting at 20/10 speed/spacing. When you arrive at lesson 9, you may lower 20/10 to 20/5 when you become annoyed by low progress.

At lesson 9 start also the words chapter with short words.

When you arrive at lesson 40 with 20/10 narrow the gap slowly by going to 13/13. Do that by exercising lesson 40 only. When you finish with 20/5 narrow the gap exercising lesson 40 only to 9/9


Posted: 2022-07-18 13:00
Well, if you actually read the famous Koch method https://www.qrpforum.de/index.php?attachment/23748-kochdissertation-pdf/ you will find:

- after research and tests Koch suggests beginners to start with 60 cpm / 12 wpm. HE states that higher speed causes too much stress for beginners
- Koch sees 12 wpm as an idea beginners speed. After mastering this speed the student can himself augment the speed
- Koch opposes also the Farnsworth speed (fast speed characters with longer pauses - as suggested here as 20/5 = 20 wpm character speed at 5 wpm effective speed). Koch advocates normal spacing (e.g. 12/12) from the beginning.
- Koch states tests that following these rules a beginner can learn CW in 28 half-hour sessions.

73


Posted: 2022-07-19 19:40

https://lcwo.net/forum/2090

https://gitlab.com/4ham/koch-method-real-words


Koch

https://archive.org/details/morse-code-teaching-research/Koch%201936%20Combined%202.22/page/65/mode/2up

https://ia902501.us.archive.org/34/items/morse-code-teaching-research/Koch%201936%20Combined%202.22.pdf


Also this Seward, J. P. (1943). An experimental comparison of code-learning methods. Journal of Experimental Psychology, 33(2), 115–129 :-

https://archive.org/stream/sim_journal-of-experimental-psychology-general_1943-08_33_2/sim_journal-of-experimental-psychology-general_1943-08_33_2_djvu.txt

search for "AN EXPERIMENTAL COMPARISON OF CODE-LEARNING METHODS "


Posted: 2022-07-20 13:17
Welcome Professor Di:
Everyone finds their way by trial and error, that is, unless they become discouraged and quit.

Each can find a Character Sending Speed, and match that to a total Words Per Minute Speed.
For example, I used several different websites and downloads to learn most of the letters and numbers.
I even used much slower YouTube videos, because I had great difficulty at the beginning with recognizing what I heard and then writing that character by hand on paper. Here is an example of what I resorted to after exploring many options:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS_lWIjTPdY

The essential point is that whatever you start with, you will make progress if you follow a practice routine each day.

Then I got to this series of exercises:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICdPBIA0MLw

Of course, I fall into the category of a seriously handicapped learner of CW, which means that no matter how often some Know--It--All begins dictating what I absolutely "must do" to succeed, I have had to learn to navigate the efforts that are the cause of much discouragement of beginners.

I do prefer to use the menu feature on LCWO titled CONVERT TEXT TO CW.

This is the best feature in my opinion, because it allows me to choose the Text and Characters that I want for practice so that I can work at a level whereby I can comprehend what I am doing.

Currently, I am copying at the character speed of 22 WPM. That is the speed the characters are sent at. However, the total Words Per Minute that I copy at is 5 WPM, so that my practice speed is written as 22/5 on LCWO.net.

Also, I write "customized" lessons for myself to copy. My current series of lessons look like this:
200
1dCAYDyduWJYk.
7qFsrK2bJvq5.
zTsrFJ8u7bpP.
N5VCuTOjhdpw.

201
OTgWFfm5SlnK.
vjBCPgDqHYtb.
tkKY6KlMyfkg.
vT478FpYej0B.

202
SyakIAAN8TRG.
ERinm4NhdLfw.
uGXjtYO71iIx.
ZYzkykwI0AGP.

203
RluBp5g5YSXE.
TsLQ2U0tcq2t.
vLRGqIIGE7Oc.
Tmzw6BdfoDUr.

204
FDKpE4Fabqxl.
VzYL9OBPxdo3.
V1wVvzuP1Nxt.
GnouCV6SrY96.


205
iHflB48ByGDc.
fY7aOXNXPwUR.
7LoBa2qvLDGL.
LIPVM2IsFqxn.

206
iP88VsuFnDsnz.
vLZWvQ7xRwVC.
OSVMA1vVzQ06.
x3dLuZY7QVJ1.


207
xh4GWQkTBwnb.
ihSlAI44HPgh.
pGdDot9h0R4c.
szue3YcKNoK8.

208
anU0QZp74qD4.
8uK0rWYhHfeb.
3Sr9uf60R02m.
TVaziXFYxOjW.

209
Zmun2fM3UMJE.
rdgQRYrNQKf6.
9c65GLcQnyoR.
NbS5klIFHXjl78.

I also use some of the recommended practice formats. Being able to explore my own methods of study has been one of the enjoyable aspects of learning CW.






Posted: 2022-07-20 22:04
At the times of Koch (late 1930s I assume) 15 wpm was a hell of a speed, as everybody used either straight keys or the occasional mechanical bug. Teaching at 12 wpm was already a massive starting point. Nowadays, give a listen to the speeds on air, most CW is computer to computer at 35+ wpm; you get the occasional QRS with a straight key but it's badly formed, as telegraphists don't come from a military background any more and accuracy is overlooked. A realistic starting speed is 20 wpm.


Posted: 2022-07-21 18:28
OC, you have the Koch PHD thesis in german and in English translation, see links.

The whole point about Koch's research is how to teach CW the most effective way. Bear in mind that Koch states that all characters can be taught in 28 half hour sessions.

Koch states that he tried to teach beginners at high speed (20 wpm) immediatelly, but that this is too stressfull. His tests show that teaching beginners at 12 wpm until all CW signs are known is better, and that the students can increase speed themselves lateron without any problem.

Your assumptions that sending speeds in the last century was slower is not correct - have a look at Mc Elroy high speed records for an example.

The fact that his research leads to different results than what you like to think does not mean he is necessarily wrong just because he lived before you.

73

Gerd.


Posted: 2022-07-22 13:49
Perhaps even a 12 WPM speed could have been possible for me. However, in my younger years, 20's, 30's, and 40's there just were no tools like LCWO.net available which allowed for adjustable speeds.
The difficult part for me was not so much sending speed of the individual character. I think I could have caught onto that with continued practice. The difficult part was the spacing between the characters.
When 5 WPM was the testing standard for amateur radio the goal was obtainable. It seems that now, much more practice is needed at the entry level.
The attitude which has been cultivated in me, is to ignore all advice and instruction which establishes impossible and unattainable goals, and to continue practice at the speed and level which achieves obtainable goals.
So it does not matter how often people say that I should learn at the speed that they suggest. If I can only learn at the speed of a handicapped learner, that is exactly the speed that I learn at, and moreover, I enjoy the learning that I obtain.
The consequence is that I obtain the benefit of learning more about any and all kinds of "Learning Methods" and these are added to my successes at learning many things.
I suppose that my "learning attitude" is a bit different, because I do not approach the study of a new subject with an attitude of low self-esteem, humbly inquiring with nervous clutching of my hat in my hand, hopeful that other persons will "approve" of me.
Learning is fascinating because in fact, nobody can stop a person from learning. The acchievements that I have obtained in life, speak for themselves. As a consquence, "Taking Orders" from other people is not part of my learning methodology. It becomes laughable at times to observe the encirclement of advice givers who issue commands one way or the other.
In fact, I am having fun and making progress, and I encourage others to do the same.
Of course, if a person chooses to quit when someone goes around giving orders, that is also a person option. It is disappointing however, to observe the silence of the gathered audience, who appear on the stage of life, asking questions, never to be heard from again, because they simply did not "fit in" or engage in subservient ass kissing.

=================
Every day I do the math. Sometimes 40+ people are online at this website. Sometimes its 30+ people. Other days it's 20+ people.
Today, the number of persons online is in the teens (18). Every month, the numbers dwindle and get smaller, and smaller, and smaller.
Do the math. Numbers do not lie. Eventually, perhaps one glorified "old timer" will be around telling 1 applicant; "Yes, you need to learn cW at the recommended speed. That way, you can communicate with the last few "old timers" who still use CW."
Oh yeah, of course the FCC is about to offer the bandwidths amateurs use to other interests because the commercial and miliatary and industrial interests want those frequencies.
It is just math. Of course, some people say; "I hate math".



Posted: 2022-07-25 13:35
ProfessorDi
The following assumes that the CW student has learned all of the letters of the alphabet. When that is accomplished, the following may be of some assistance.
Here is another random series that I developed with the aid of a certain randomizing website. This is using Bigrams and Trigrams to make short lessons that may be of some assistance to beginners (or even Big Inners as well) as follows:
Randomize Text Lines - String and List Randomizer - Online - Browserling Web Developer Tools

1
AU AW AE AI AL AN .
LI OI TI UI KN .
NG NGL NN NO .
LK LL LM LP LS .

2
SL SM SN SP SPR .
NZ TZ ZZ ZY
NCY RY TRY TY ZY .
RR RS RT RV RY .

3
LK RK SK BL CL .
ST STR TH THR .
SQU SS ST STR .
VR WR SC SCH .

4
FT RF GG GH GL .
OI LO OL ON NO .
SW US LT NT RT .
UI UN UR US UT .

5
GN GR NG NGL .
CH GH PH SH SHR.
EU EW FF FL FR .
SN UN IO OA OE .

6
DR LD RD EE EL .
FR GR PR RD RG .
EN IN KN NC ND .
CR NC SC DD DL .

7
OO OR OS OU OW .
PH PL PN PP PR SP .
TW WH WL WN WR .
ANT AR ART AST AT .

8
SPR STR TR TRY .
LV RV VR VV SW .
NS NT NZ ON PN .
RK RL RM RN RP .

9
EN ENT ER ERS .
TH WH AI EI IC .
BY CC CH CK CL .
LM MM MP SM .

10
TRY TT TW TY .
SCR SH SHR SK .
AU AW BB BL BR .
AE AI AL AN .

11
QU SQU BR CR DR .
TZ UT QU OU .
IE IM IN IO IS IT .
ANT AR ART AST AT .

12
FL GL LD LF LG .
AX EX OX BY LY .
DR LD RD EE EL .
LT LV OL PL RL SL .

-------------------
former list also randomized:
13
EN ENT ER ERS .
FR GR PR RD RG .
CR NC SC DD DL .
TRY TT TW TY .

14
AE AI AL AN .
DR LD RD EE EL .
OO OR OS OU OW .
RK RL RM RN RP .

15
QU SQU BR CR DR .
LM MM MP SM .
LK RK SK BL CL .
ST STR TH THR .

16
LK LL LM LP LS .
EN IN KN NC ND .
SN UN IO OA OE .
GN GR NG NGL .

17
TH WH AI EI IC .
AU AW BB BL BR .
OI LO OL ON NO .
RR RS RT RV RY .

18
SPR STR TR TRY .
AX EX OX BY LY .
UI UN UR US UT .
SL SM SN SP SPR .

19
BY CC CH CK CL .
LT LV OL PL RL SL .
FT RF GG GH GL .
VR WR SC SCH .

20
PH PL PN PP PR SP .
NS NT NZ ON PN .
SQU SS ST STR .
SW US LT NT RT .

21
SCR SH SHR SK .
AU AW AE AI AL AN .
NG NGL NN NO .
ANT AR ART AST AT .

22
TW WH WL WN WR .
LV RV VR VV SW .
TZ UT QU OU .
LI OI TI UI KN .

23
EU EW FF FL FR .
ANT AR ART AST AT .
NZ TZ ZZ ZY
FL GL LD LF LG .

24
CH GH PH SH SHR.
NCY RY TRY TY ZY .
LV RV VR VV SW .
IE IM IN IO IS IT .

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