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LCWO Discussion Forum [Atom LCWO Forum Feed]

This is a simple discussion forum for LCWO users. Feel free to use it for any kind of discussion related to this website.

Thread: I'll never ever learn Morse Code

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AuthorText


Posted: 2021-12-02 10:49
I read of people finishing the 40 lessons in few weeks. What about me? It's been months and still I can't finish the lessons.


Posted: 2021-12-02 12:36
test:
I read of people finishing the 40 lessons in few weeks.


Not so many . .

test:

What about me? It's been months and still I can't finish the lessons.


Sounds fairly normal . .

Have you hit a block ? - or are you making steady progress - if a bit slower than you thought/hoped.


Posted: 2021-12-02 13:04
Hi,
please read this thread from a couple of weeks ago;

https://lcwo.net/forum/2459/How-long-to-learn-Morse-code

You are most likely completely normal in progress, and those finishing 40 lessons in a few week are not that normal - but they are very lucky! :)


Posted: 2021-12-03 00:33
test make your own account, when you prefer personal help. Now you are registered under userid test as 100 wpm a champion I can't never ever touch in performanc for the short rest of my long life.


Posted: 2021-12-03 14:33
test:
I read of people finishing the 40 lessons in few weeks. What about me? It's been months and still I can't finish the lessons.


As a general rule in life, the idea is generally recognized that if one thing ("the lessons") seem not to be effective, another thing...
("other lessons") may be effective.
Some people approach a subject with a kind of Tunnel Vision or something that might be thought of as a kind of "Railraod Track" thinking. They can see the direction of the "track thinking" but fail to recognize any course of action which might lead slightly to the right or to the left. So what they deal with is a kind of "One--and--Done" philosophy about learning. They know "one thing" and they try "one thing" and if it does not work for them they conclude that they will never learn.
That is rather disappointing to see. Besides, in my experience of life, what I conclude is that any person can do almost anything.
If you saw the movie "Shawshank Redemption" you may have noticed the insight offered by the character "Andy". He said that geology teaches that all that it takes is "time and pressure".
Of course, that may not be understood, if a person operates with the assumption is that the only way to learn something, is a way that other people tell you that must be used as the only proven method. If you have to start at a speed of 1 word per minute, then that is your beginning. After that, all that is needed is time and pressure--- (effort in other words). Time and Effort. The Time is yours, and the Effort is yours. A person can do, whatever they say that they will do. The critical issue is whether or not the person claims that they should do it just as others say, or whether they do it the way that they choose to do it. If one way does not work, find another way. If we live our lives in accordance with someone else's standard, our journey will not lead us to that thing that we call "our self". Trying to be like others, is not always such a good idea.


Posted: 2021-12-03 19:43
Don't worry about it. Taking 'months' is far more normal than 'weeks'. Anyone who did it in 'weeks' is some kind of prodigy.

It's taken me _years_ - but you are probably not that slow or lazy, so you might well get there quicker than me :)



Posted: 2021-12-04 22:46
Tip for DJ1YFK:
In learning Wabun and experimenting, it turns out the best and fastest way (for me) is to learn TWO new characters in each lesson, (course step) and use the first quarter of the exercise time to present ONLY the two new characters in a random sequence. The rest of the time the already learned
symbols mixed with the new pair.
Easy to program for myself, but when people like to experiment, as I did, I suppose you may use the program of wa2nfn and the "text to CW" part of this website.

You may ask wa2nfn to give you the command parms when you are dizzled by the help file he wrote.


Posted: 2021-12-07 21:04
Hang in there!
Let it become part of your life's challenge...I can't play Mozart on my guitar.

Also Take the Basic CWOPs course ..breath man breath
D


Posted: 2021-12-09 14:11
hihi :-)
It took me 3 1/2 month to learn the charakters (5/20 wpm) by typing them into the keyboard, and andother 3 month to write them down with the pen. After 1 1/2 years I am able to read the qso's whith 20 wpm and I do my practice every day. It seems that I am not the most talented guy to learn speeches but CW is now my prefered mode on the radio. Endurance and daily practice is key, and the most importand thing - it is just a hobby :-)
73, OE8FBF, Harry


Posted: 2021-12-11 11:43
I second what Harry, OE8FBF writes:
I am currently at lesson 19. It took me about 2.5 months to get here. I wasted a week or so not realizing I need to set the overall word rate to 5WPM. Once I set overall rate to 5WPM and character speed to 20WPM(look at CW settings near the bottom left) I started to make progress. I takes me at least two days to digest one character doing one hour a day (receive and send practice with my vibroplex single paddle keyer).

I figure it will be 5-6 months to get through the entire program. At least.

Just gotta get up every morn and do it. IF at 5WPM overall speed and 20WPM character speed you cannot sort out the timed random word practices, then, start with the Morse practice where you get each letter and have as much time as you want to sort them out (at 20WPM).

So, I start like this. 1) Morse practice for 10 mins (as much time as I want to warm up on characters). Then, I switch to the one minute timed random sequence. At the end of each sequence I use those characters for send practice.

One hour a day. Every day.
KM2B


Posted: 2021-12-11 15:11
There are different ways to study. Perhaps way to have difficulty is to try only one way to study and learn, and find that it is quite a battle. At that point, something new can be tried.
One of the learning strategies to be avoided then, is something in the category of "It's My Way Or The Highway".
Strategies in the form of "You have to ..." or "You must......." are not necessary.

A strategy that works, must be one which goes from the Zero Level of knowing nothing, to a level in which something is known. Actually, any one of the Letters, or Numbers, or Punctuations can be used. Any specific character learned, is just a foundation until the next character is learned.
When a few characters are learned, a real beginning is the condition. 2 or 3 new characters studied each week has been mentioned, and that is a good learning strategy.
I must admit that I learn all the Letters, before learning any of the Numbers. It is a great accomplishment to have learned all the Letters. It is another great accomplishment to have learned all the Numbers also. Numbers are actually, rather easy.
I learned the Period (.) first, then the Comma (,) then the Forward Slash (/) then the = sign and the Hyphen. I began adding one of these at a time into my practice texts.

By the time a person learns all the Letters and Numbers, a great accomplishment has been achieved.
There are other strategies for practices also. For example, a person can find a lesson involving Dates for a practice, by entering a lesson like the following into the LCWO.net feature titled CONVERT TEXT TO CW like these:
600
--- --- /// ??? ,,, === +++ .
6 June 1919 .
24 July 1928 .
26 July 1930 .
10 February 1934 .

601
--- /// ??? ,,, === + .
18 April 1940 .
29 April 1943 .
30 October 1946 .
14 December 1946 .

602
--- /// ??? ,,, === +
18 March 1947
20 October 1947
14 July 1952
11 December 1954

603
--- /// ??? ,,, === +
21 March 1956 .
19 August 1963 .
16 August 1971 .
29 November 1975 .


After a while, all of the Punctuations can be added into the sound recognition text in a random way.
=============

Then again, to ward off all feelings of failure and "giving up" a person can use a kind of "anchor text". This helps for times when a person is just tired, or discouraged and the feeling of just not wanting to practice seems to dominate momentarily. An "Anchor Text" is just a phrase or wise saying of some kind, that has been remembered and tapped out with the fingers.
I sometimes do this when I have gone to bed, and wish to do one more little practice with CW.
Here is an example of such an "anchor" message:

Yesterday I was clever, so I wanted to change the world. Today I am wise, so I am changing myself. ― Rumi. Such a memorized saying has repetition of many characters and some Punctuation.
However, a date can be added in at the beginning or end like this:
11 DECEMBER 2021 (That by the way, is the way that the U. S. Military writes dates. So by adding the date, even Numbers can be practiced.

Another unusual practice can be done while sitting or standing, and tapping with a fingertip. In that kind of practice, I would send a message like: "wall" or "window" or "color" or "chair" or "couch" or "carpet" or "street" or "tree" or "sky" or "lawn" or "equipment"...and so forth and so on.

So there is some variety in learning strategies that a person can adopt and this is important when someone has the feeling like; "I will never learn this." or "What's the use of even trying?"
There has always been a kind of wisdom in thinking something like; "I do not care if I have to go around, over, beneath it or through it! I am going to get this one way or another, and that is that!
Like the character "Andy" in the movie, "The Shawshank Redemption" said. "All it takes is Time and Pressure". All things can be learned if we just apply a little of our time, and a little of our pressure.







Posted: 2022-01-09 14:29
It took me nearly 10 months to reach around 30 characters. Then took a break (due to more work load). During the lull gave another push and reached the 40 character set, and crossed the first hurdle. Put together it nearly took me a year.

It was during the COVID lock downs that I started going on Air with CW. That gave me a push to improve my speed from 12 to 15 WPM. Honestly, I have many more miles to go.



Posted: 2022-01-10 12:20
vu3byd, that is a fine accomplishment. I recall that it took about 1 year or so in 2019, for me to learn all letters and numbers. Your committment shows benefits. I hope "Test User" will return with a report of some progress.
I am reminded of the movie, "Coach Carter" where all the members of the basketball team, did pushups etc. to pay off the 1,000 "Push Up" punishment that one team member incurred. They were "a team" and the philosophy carried forward in all that they did.


Posted: 2022-01-18 20:25
Something that's always mentioned is to "have fun". Well, for me what I had to realize was fun was when I was getting it near 100%. I know the training program suggests that you've got near 90%, so maybe move on. Well, for whipper snappers that's fine. I only got frustrated when I tried to progress too fast. I AM enjoying it when I can hear 3 characters (at 20/8) in my head, say them in my head, then type them and hit a space. When I've really drilled a lesson in, THEN I move on. It's no fun practicing if I'm getting behind and feel like I'm screwing it up. Just my opinion since everyone is different.


Posted: 2022-01-18 20:26
Update: while my previous response still applies, what I might have been doing wrong is associating a sound with a finger response -- NOT good. Hear the sound/letter, store them up "in my head", now quickly type the sequence and a space. This gives me the least errors.


Posted: 2022-01-27 07:14
Took me 2 years.

Do not worry or panic in any way.

I did not feel at any time that I was struggling, or going to fail.


Posted: 2022-01-27 10:06
The feeling that failure is an option is not uncommon. In my own practice, sometimes the only thing that kept me from giving up, was that practicing CW was relaxing. It was a part of the day that I did not have "to think" about anything, It was just something that I did, and I did it often enough that progress was made. Of course, I must admit that I completely disregarded every advice that I was given, and set out on my own journey of learning. That of itself permitted me to take off any pressure. All kinds of advice can be given, and some people can say it must be done this way or that way. In fact, when people pressure others with requirements, it sometimes discourages people from even trying, because the human mind is susceptible to "suggestion". When people say this method or that method must be studied, it sets the learner up for failure.
The conclusion that I find is that "rule-makers" really do not care about other people at all. Some people are regarded as the equivalent of "discards". At the same time, it can be the case that nothing is "over" until the individual learner says that it is over.


Posted: 2022-01-29 03:33
I just started learning CW about 3 weeks ago. I'm on lesson 4. I practice three times a day for a 5 to 10 minutes. I'm learning at 30 wpm with an effective speed of 20 wpm. It's really hard to get my brain to work that fast but I do feel it is getting a little easier. I watched a video of some guy who was saying that it's important to learn at the speed you intend to use it at. It's more difficult to make progress but it is better in the long run. What do you guys think about that advice? Either way, I find that the letters become unrecognizable when I slow it down now.


Posted: 2022-01-29 13:48
Tapsnap:
I just started learning CW about 3 weeks ago. I'm on lesson 4. I practice three times a day for a 5 to 10 minutes. I'm learning at 30 wpm with an effective speed of 20 wpm. It's really hard to get my brain to work that fast but I do feel it is getting a little easier. I watched a video of some guy who was saying that it's important to learn at the speed you intend to use it at.


It is if you can do it ( within a reasonable time )
else
if you can't make constant progress you may well give up in frustration( and possibly return in 2 years ) about lesson 10 due,
possibly to you finding it didn't sink in fully and you now mix letters up or forgot some of the earlier ones somehow . . .

We can't tell ( and possibly you can't either yet ) just what your aptitude is.

Three weeks continuous exercising to lesson four suggest you aren't going to hit 25/25 in two or three months = high aptitude

So you might be better at 20/20 and getting all the way through 40 lessons fairly quickly.

Try to make continuous progress.

20/20 is fine on the bands.


Tapsnap:

It's more difficult to make progress but it is better in the long run. What do you guys think about that advice? Either way, I find that the letters become unrecognizable when I slow it down now.


30 and 20 sound different, that's all . .


Speed is fine - but accuracy and actually succeeding in learning are MUCH more important.


Also

You probably want to get to head copying ( not having to write it all down through the QSO and then read it back to yourself )
- especially if you want 30/30 would (probably) need a keyboard or short-hand to keep up.


For this you need to build an automatic reaction i.e hear morse -> character pops into your head without you thinking.

If you aren't going to get to 25/25 in 8 weeks or so, then you are back to building the "automatic reaction" by a process of repetition.

i.e. lots of decoding until it does become automatic - you might have heard of "muscle memory", as some people call it, even though it is in the brain


Some people pick this up very quickly - the rest of us have to work at it a bit over a period of time, two years not being an exceptional practice period.

If you aren't going to get to 25/25 in 8 weeks or so, then you are back to building this "automatic reaction" by a process of repetition.
i.e. lots of decoding

If you go to fast with the 90% and it didn't sink in fully ( i.e it's medium term memory, rather than the automatic response ) then you run the risk of stalling.

In this group is is being referred to as a "wall"


You will have to work out your aptitude and measure your progress yourself . . . but don't just get to lesson 10 and give up

Let us know how you get on

YMMV as ever

cb


Posted: 2022-01-29 18:56
Since posting, I’ve tried several slower speeds, but it’s kind of messing me up. I no longer recognize the letters at the slower speed. At 30wpm there is no way you can count the dits and the dahs, I just recognize it as a sound that represents the letter. Since I do still see progress, albeit, really slow, I think I’m just going to continue at the speed that I am now comfortable with.


Posted: 2022-01-30 01:09
For what it's worth, I started learning on this site about 2 weeks ago (tried about 10 years ago with a different method but gave up). I'm 58 so my peak learning period is long gone however I've learned patience and perseverance.

I started at 25/10 typing the letters on the keyboard but found I was too slow so started writing it down. I read some advice to perhaps slow down to 20/8 but at 20 I was hearing dots/dashes rather then the rhythm so went back and settled on 25/8.

I always do a 2 minute run and aim for a consistent 94+% for a minimum of maybe 20 or more tests with at least 1 score of 100%. I think moving on the 1st time you hit 90% is a mistake, it was in my case.

In addition once I had reached around lesson 5 or so I started trying to convert anything I saw (books on the shelf, labels on tools in the workshop etc etc) leaving out the letters I hadn't learned. I did add a few common letters that I haven't had in the lessons yet, Y, H, G, plus the letters/numbers in my own call sign which added C and V.

Even so I had a tough time at lesson 10, it took me over 50 attempts to achieve the 94%+ with at least one 100% rate that I aim for but once achieved the next lesson was very easy.

What happened was that there were 2 sets of letters I kept mixing up but rather than just play the troublesome ones back I ran the full lesson but for a few attempts I ignored everything apart from the letters I was having difficulty with, simply picking them out from among the rest, this worked for me.

In addition since lesson 12 I listen to the code, write down the letters then play it back again and mark my own score before typing the letters into the dialogue box and letting the program score the result, obviously I don't correct my mistakes before typing them into the dialogue box, what I initally wrote down is what I type in but I do write the correction in on the page. Most of my errors are that I hesitate on a letter then miss the next couple especially if they're short, I leave them and try to pick it up again.

Finally I go over the alphabet in my head, A to Z and Z to A using the letters I know.

Obviously I can only say what works for me but regardless, consistent accuracy is more important than speed in my view. What I've noticed is that the more familiar I become with a particular lesson the slower it seems to be. So 25/8 @ 2 minutes works for me (2 minutes helps build concentration IMO). If I'm still at 25/8 by lesson 40 (currently about to start lesson 15 so a long, long way to go yet) I'll start working on speed, gradually, and whenever it feels relaxed I'll step it up again until I reach my limit or a level I'm happy with, whichever comes 1st.

I'll reiterate what I said at the start, I've only been learning for a few weeks, there are guys on here who have seen it all before, listen to the advice, try it, assess the result and then decide what works for you.

Good luck and remember, Success is not final, failure is not fatal, it is the courage to continue that counts.


Posted: 2022-01-30 16:07
I am also not at the end of my learning journey, but I would heartily agree that it is being able to continue onwards in the face of adversity that is key to all this.


Posted: 2022-01-31 11:12
Very good Alex. I am glad that you are working to dismiss all barriers to your progress.


Posted: 2022-02-01 16:13
Yes, I had a few goes and 'gave up' at about lesson 4... I eventually realised that if I just kept at it then after many, many, many goes at each lesson I was actually getting better (I could see it from the numbers on the graphs in the statistics page).

Once I realised I was actually getting better, but just so slowly that it was barely perceptible, I realised that I was going to be at this for years, so I've tried to make some time every day and just keep at it, irrespective of how badly I think I'm doing on any given day.

I've managed to get to lesson 38 and thing are still progressing, so, maybe, I'm near the end of the beginning? :)


Posted: 2022-02-03 02:10
Alex, one person's strength encourages others, no matter how modest it seems. That is what I think.
We can learn, so that others may know that they can learn also. Each one who learns, contributes. I am very encouraged by your effort.

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