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Thread: Should musicians in training be encouraged to take this up?

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AuthorText


Posted: 2021-08-19 09:38
Could this be a complementary endeavour when it comes to developing rhythmic / auditory skill for musicians? I'm curiously intrigued by the fetching rhythmic characteristics, and cannot help but relate different letters - and strings thereof - to musical gestures from different musical traditions (especially Hungarian folk music) ... or, for instance, with the letter 'R' - the call of a morepork, among other bird calls. Any thoughts?


Posted: 2021-08-19 15:33
In music durations are 1 2 4
In Morse code 1, 3, 7

It is often said that people that play instuments learn Morse code easy.

I deny that, I am totally not misical, but I learned Morse code within some weeks at required amateur speed for obtaining a ham licemse some 70 years ago

I think the theoty is true that playing an instrument requires perseverance, so does learning Morse code obviously when I look ar the tear tearing results of 95% of the "students" on this website.


Posted: 2021-08-19 20:19
UseTheMorse:
Could this be a complementary endeavour when it comes to developing rhythmic / auditory skill for musicians? I'm curiously intrigued by the fetching rhythmic characteristics, and cannot help but relate different letters - and strings thereof - to musical gestures from different musical traditions (especially Hungarian folk music) ... or, for instance, with the letter 'R' - the call of a morepork, among other bird calls. Any thoughts?



I think everyone should be encouraged to learn morse, but for communication and to keep it alive, not to help musicians etc.


Rhythmic ability may well be of use in sending, especially with a "straight" key
( This particular example is loud enough for any percussion section
http://www.morsemad.com/nato.htm )

but

learning morse for anyone other than military intercept telegraphists typing encoded gobbledygook

( not an employment opportunity growth area, in the western world anyway )

really means learning to read morse without writing it all down

and

for that you need to be able to decode morse characters auto-magically with out having to think

and

also at the same time, remember what just passed to piece it all together into words/numbers and abbrevs and pro-signs

and

having pieced it all together to understand its meaning - whilst continuing to decode what's coming next etc


Not much of this sort of skill needed for the average orchestration.

Not much overlap with perfect pitch and constant timed sense of rhythm.


YMMV tho - maybe you can parp a message to your mum in the audience - that will be two new students, maybe ;-)

cb


Posted: 2021-08-19 22:39
Hi,

The Learning of Radiotelegraphic Code
Author(s): Donald W. Taylor
Source: The American Journal of Psychology, Vol. 56, No. 3 (Jul., 1943), pp. 319-353
Published by: University of Illinois Press
Stable URL: https://www.jstor.org/stable/1417382
Accessed: 14-06-2020 19:39 UTC

Table TABLE VI
TESTS OF AUDITORY ABILITIES

no, very week correlation between AUDITORY ABILITIES and Code
Achievement, sri.

73
Rüdiger
DD5RK


Posted: 2021-08-22 11:14
DD5RK:

The Learning of Radiotelegraphic Code
Donald W. Taylor

Hi Rüdiger,

Thank you for that. The whole paper is quite interesting. Darn it. It's keeping me away from work that I should be getting done!


Posted: 2021-08-22 12:09
Hi HH,

Thank you for these thoughts.

nonagenarian:
In music durations are 1 2 4

I would highly recommend checking out some traditional Macedonian folk music ... try Skopsko Oro, in 11/16 - it's wonderful music. (These types of time signatures are very common in this kind of music)

That said, I would concur that mainstream Western art music does indeed tend to be often based on symmetric measures: simple duple triple & quadruple meters (or time signatures) and compound time signatures which tend to similarly duple- triple- & quadruple-based with each dotted crotchet beat subdivided into 3

nonagenarian:
In Morse code 1, 3, 7

The overall word lengths tend to be variable. I would like to add some refinement here: yes, the lengths of the pitches are 1 and 3, I agree here - as are the spaces, which indeed are 1, 3 as well as 7;

This is exactly where the magic happens - I know you stated that you lack musical ability: please briefly bear with me, as the following is straightforward arithmetic. Counting the 'atomic' units:
>> 1 + 1 = 2 (dot + inter-letter space)
>> 3 + 1 = 4 (dash + inter-letter space)
>> 1 + 3 = 4 (dot + inter-word space)
>> 3 + 3 = 6 (dash + inter-word space)
And so on.

That means variable lengths for sums of whole words (both even and odd are possible), and the apparent rhythms that arise, to my ears, tend to be made up of pulses consisting of about 4 'atomic' units each (something like 4 semiquavers making up one crotchet pulse)

Hope that makes sense.

nonagenarian:
... playing an instrument requires perseverance, so does learning Morse ...

Agreed, that is a very good point ... perseverance tends to play a significant, arguably essential part in consistent long-term development across a range of endeavours.

Good week to you,
-UseTheMorse


Posted: 2021-08-22 17:34
Thanks fr ur msg. I want to hear the macedonian music, that you refer to, pse give a link.

I have no feel for rithm, essentially I hate those dancing, bouncing on their feet(determined by g= 9.861 m/s^2 locally, and the amplitude) with thousands of (in my opinion extremely stupid) people that are - with the help of dutch criminal produced pills, extacy - under the leading/supervision/ceo of some sub-under-undergraduate schooldropout dj, and are hipping arms to heaven (actually the hell where you should not be alive for more tan 10 seconds when you actually should be there) in order to alive the next week of their misserably existence. (apartment tree pet)


Posted: 2021-08-22 22:10
Hi

UseTheMorse:
Hi Rüdiger,

Thank you for that. The whole paper is quite interesting. Darn it. It's keeping me away from work that I should be getting done!


For learning:

The Art and Skill of Radio-Telegraphy
A Manual For Learning, Using, Mastering And Enjoying
The International Morse Code As A Means Of Communication

Third Revised Edition
Last edit - July 19, 2001
Copyright – 2001 William G. Pierpont, N0HFF

73
Rüdiger
DD5RK


Posted: 2021-08-23 19:59
Skopsko Oro

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TL0VLKzzbQY

Gene


Posted: 2021-09-04 09:24
nonagenarian:
In music durations are 1 2 4
In Morse code 1, 3, 7

It is often said that people that play instuments learn Morse code easy.

I deny that, I am totally not misical, but I learned Morse code within some weeks at required amateur speed for obtaining a ham licemse some 70 years ago

I think the theoty is true that playing an instrument requires perseverance, so does learning Morse code obviously when I look ar the tear tearing results of 95% of the "students" on this website.


Truth is out there... Actually music rhythms are same as morse: you forgotten PAUSES that making a rhytm. So there are 3+1 (4), 1+1 (2) and 7+1 (8) basic durations, same as 1-2-4/4 musical rhytms, so bluesmen and classic musicians are worse than rock'n'roll in telegraph XD


Posted: 2021-09-05 00:09


Posted: 2021-09-09 17:16
Sorry, cant play it (bug?), download link makes blank file with 0 sec duration.
Just to be sure: here's a simple example of morse rhythmic structure with pop-song, you may hear digits and letters, so as any other symbol of code
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPHEAaOg674


Posted: 2021-09-10 13:45
The International Morse code defines the timing of signals and the spaces between them.
e.g. TT the timing of the two beeps and the silence between them is 3:3:3
But in music the silence between two consecutive notes is not defined at all.
e.g. ♩♩ it could be 2:1:2 or 3:1:3 even 1:0:1

I am easily confused these on-off timings.
For example in the first 4 bars of Darth Vader's Theme my brain somehow hears TTTKK TTTKK although it's not in Morse timing.

http://easymusic.altervista.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/DD-2.gif



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