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LCWO Discussion Forum [Atom LCWO Forum Feed]

This is a simple discussion forum for LCWO users. Feel free to use it for any kind of discussion related to this website.

Thread: Confused on Learning Progression???

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AuthorText


Posted: 2020-07-23 21:52
Hello, total newbie here trying to understand the best way to learn this. I understand the idea of learning each letter by the complete sound and not breaking it up into di dah dit. I am trying to do that having my speed at 25/10, But how do I transition to sending CW if i have not learned the breakdown of the individual letters?

Second thought, I am confused at when to start sending QSO's. I read where you should get out there and do it, but wouldn't you need to be familiar or have a handle on all the letters at least to be able to understand and send anything? It seems that I can not really understand or make coherent sentences let alone words using the letters k,m,u, and r?

I am sure I am overthinking this but I have free time and access to You-tube. :)


Posted: 2020-07-23 23:12
I'm also a newbie, but with 1 and a half years practice now. I had exactly same thoughts as you in the beginning, and thought I'd never be sending. But someone told me not to worry about sending, until having learnt to copy all characters, and then sending would be no problem. And although I doubted that sending would come easy, I must admit that it did. When you know how the characters sound, you can easily reproduce the sound with your hand. You'll be able to tell if it sounds right or not... So first learn to copy, and sending will come almost by itself - believe me...

Everybody says go on air soon with QRS QSO's. I didn't feel very comfortable with that until I had done one year of copy training. Copying on air, was to me very hard in the beginning, and actually it still is. If you listen around 3.558 or 14.058 you find members of FISTS and other hams using straight keys at low speed...


Posted: 2020-07-24 10:16
Mark,

the best way to learn would be to find someone near you to help you learn.

LCWO can help you learn on your own, as many have proven here.

If you do the learning on your own try to observe yourself and don't just follow what s repeated over and over. I would politely challenge 25/10 as a beginner's speed, and would challenge any set speed limit for training. I change my speeds all the time, depending on my form of the day.

Starting with a reasonable speed of 10/10 and then work your way up is what worked for me. That was before there was any discussions on dit counting and long before Internet as way know it ...

73

Gerd.


Posted: 2020-07-24 13:26
df9ts:

If you do the learning on your own try to observe yourself and don't just follow what s repeated over and over. I would politely challenge 25/10 as a beginner's speed, and would challenge any set speed limit for training. I change my speeds all the time, depending on my form of the day.

Starting with a reasonable speed of 10/10 and then work your way up is what worked for me. That was before there was any discussions on dit counting and long before Internet as way know it ...


Gerd

I think the 25/10 is aimed to stop speed merchants wasting their time learning at an unnecessary slow speed ( for them ).

Some people report getting to 25/25 in a few weeks.


The rest of us may well end to getting to lesson 40 at 10/2 in the end, after a long struggle.

If Mark ensures that he is making real progress then 25/xx will be OK - for him anyway, but only he can tell . . .


G4FON recommends starting at the speed you are aiming for eg. 25/25

see https://youtu.be/jBmuoLUV1LM 7:13 ... and 9:24 9:50

YMMV

cb



Posted: 2020-07-24 14:20
Chris,
no one, me included I hope is advocating an effective speed of 2.

All the statements about dit counting and starting with fast speeds is based on opinions, not facts or studies.

What I see here since years is students stating to take a year or longer to learn the code. So there may something wrong in this 25/xx approach.

In our club we started with 8/8 for 2 or 3 lessons, then stayed at 10/10 throughout the lessons, then bumped the speed up to 15/15 for the then compulsory ham cw test (that required 12/12).

The whole learning took 6 months for us, old or young, and this was the standard time planned in by the teacher back then. Those who had difficulties got some extra lessons.

And the 25/25 after a short learning time will be at the expense of accuracy. After all: CW is not a speed race but a mode of communication and so needs some accuracy.

I had a frien here you followed all these advices common in this forum (listening at speeds beyond comprehension, trying to build up 500 most used words, Farnsworth and what else). Finally he believed he would never succeed. We then started slow to build up the character comprehension, did a lot of speed training always at (but not beyond) his limits, many on-air excercises, guided QSOs (2 in front of TRX) and after a year he was good to go alone (age 65).
I took him all illusions of head copy, asked him to write down. 4 years later now he does head copy and is a good operator.

As of the books on radio telegraphy recommended a lot hear: I am lucky these did not exist when I learned. Instead of reading those I just focused on learning code, and used myself as a benchmark.

The speed at which someone trains depends on the person. It is important that the speed is fast, yet feasable. And this "cutting edge" speed varies for each of use. I would not recommend any speed to unknown forum members here. I would rather set a minimum speed (10/10 after some lessons) and from there make speed a function of accuracy.

Yes, my mileage varies.

73

Gerd.


Posted: 2020-07-25 01:38
Sebastian, thanks for the encouragement. That sounds like a good strategy.


Posted: 2020-07-25 01:55
Thanks Gerd and Chris, It sounds like as long as I keep it reasonable and do not make it overly frustrating I should be able to vary my speeds a little and not force myself into learning the way I think someone else does. I will play with that some and see how it goes.
Thanks

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