[LCWO LOGO]  

Login

User name:
Password:


Language
Български Português brasileiro
Bosanski Català
繁體中文 Česky
Dansk Deutsch
English Español
Suomi Français
Ελληνικά Hrvatski
Magyar Italiano
日本語 한국어
Bahasa Melayu Nederlands
Norsk Polski
Português Română
Русский සිංහල
Slovenščina Srpski
Svenska ภาษาไทย
Türkçe Українська
简体中文
Who is online? (18)


LCWO Discussion Forum [Atom LCWO Forum Feed]

This is a simple discussion forum for LCWO users. Feel free to use it for any kind of discussion related to this website.

Thread: Fully learned code speed

Back to the Forum

AuthorText


Posted: 2020-07-13 11:34
Hello. When do you think exercise speed is fully understood?
When at a given speed you do not make a single mistake 10 exercises in a row? Or maybe at least one of the 10 exercises without errors.
I can have a lot of exercises with less than 10% errors, but very very rarely zero errors.
I also noticed that I make almost the same number of mistakes in the exercises that I perform at very different speeds (for example, 20/20 and 17/17). How does this relate? I will be glad to any advice


Posted: 2020-07-13 12:22


Hi Tony

Do you notice any pattern ?

e.g. decoding numbers as letters, mixing up 5 and h, s h i together, e i t ( shorter letters )

Can you tell you have maybe made an error - or do you think it all went smoothly . .

It it half way through or at the end ?

Do you get several errors in a row or is it dispersed throughout.

How long a code group are you decoding - 2 mins , 20 mins ?

If you change audio frequency does the error rate change ?


cb


Posted: 2020-07-13 15:01
Related question: you recommend moving on after getting 90%. But for how long a session? I am back at if after a break, thanks for all your work. Stephen


Posted: 2020-07-13 20:33


Depends how fast you are going . .

How about 150 chars?

Does your success rate drop off at all as you go for longer ?

cb


Posted: 2020-07-14 21:30
Hello Chris
I did not notice the exact template. Of course I am making mistakes in characters 4, v, 5, b, 6 and such. It seemed to me that everyone makes mistakes in these symbols and this is normal.
But why do these errors continue to remain in the same amount at a lower speed?
What percentage of errors can be considered normal?
I do the exercises for a minute. I noticed that it becomes difficult for me to concentrate for longer than 30-40 seconds.
I also noticed that during the exercise, I begin to “lag behind”. And the longer the exercise lasts, the more I lag behind.


Posted: 2020-07-17 19:05
Hi Tony

Tonyd:
Hello Chris
I did not notice the exact template. Of course I am making mistakes in characters 4, v, 5, b, 6 and such. It seemed to me that everyone makes mistakes in these symbols and this is normal.
But why do these errors continue to remain in the same amount at a lower speed?


It's not just the sound of the character but how long it takes - so you need the rhythm too.

As you progress, code seems to be getting slower somehow. As you relax with more experience you seem to keep what you hear in your mind somehow.

A funny process . . .


Tonyd:

What percentage of errors can be considered normal?
I do the exercises for a minute. I noticed that it becomes difficult for me to concentrate for longer than 30-40 seconds.
I also noticed that during the exercise, I begin to “lag behind”. And the longer the exercise lasts, the more I lag behind.


That sounds like fatigue - how many 1 min sessions are you doing. The "no exercise" period is a key part of exercising . . . .

Try 30 second exercises, maybe. You need to practice decoding - repeat repeat repeat.

Any form of struggling will not help.


Have you tried a change of audio pitch - you may not have a flat ear response.

You have been going four and a half months, so you can expect to start getting better soon.

20/20 sounds good.

Have you tried stopping measuring your progress and just listening to code at 20/20 ?

Might work. Should be more relaxing. If you run an mp3 (of a book maybe) you can stop every so often so you are decoding not struggling . .


cb





Posted: 2020-07-19 22:17
Brain need time, sometimes is good stay 1-2 days without code,I love this website, but will be nice to practice the more commun sentences as well , i believe that is important for all people no only know how a letter sound after that is important know the sound of GL 73 TNX LSN RPT , and also the sound of " UR RPT IS" "TNX FOR QSO" "NICE TO HR U" etc... and we can practice up 35 to 50.


Posted: 2020-07-19 23:46
Thanks for the advice. I try to listen to the air every day.
But so far I can very rarely only make out the callsign. The rest of the information is lost or I do not have time to write it down. There are very short pauses between words and abbreviations on the air.
The strange proportions between dashes and dots also interfere a lot. The dots sometimes go like a burst from a machine gun , but the dashes are long. I don't understand how paddle makes such strange code. The other extreme is the code that is transmitted by the key. There, the proportions are constantly changing chaotically. It is not easy to find slow code that is transmitted in normal proportions.


Posted: 2020-07-20 00:40


Did you try repeating the sound of the call to yourself?
You should be able to remember most of it.
That's a step towards decoding behind . .
but
YMMV


You should be able to get ur rst 599 5nn on almost all QSOs

If it sound chaotic you might be double hearing, so you think its twice as fast as it is. .
i.e you hear the start and stop of a dit or dah as two events

cb


Posted: 2020-07-20 13:07
I believe that the long dash and machine-gun dits are a sign that the sender is using a Vibroplex bug key (the dashes are formed manually but the dits are generated automatically). The odd timing is done deliberately. It's sometimes called "The Vibroplex Swing".

Some people find it the characterful signature of a human sender. I find it particularly annoying as the rhythm is completely different to normal morse. It will be a very long time before I bring myself to answer a "Swinger".

Beginners on the straight key do have erratic timing (and, in their misplaced haste, they don't leave big enough gaps between words), but all beginners deserve our understanding and patience.

As you so rightly observe, morse on the air is very far from the perfectly formed morse generated by LCWO.


Posted: 2020-07-21 15:36
I would encourage everybody interested in CW to get a halfautomatic (bug) key and a side swiper (cootie).

Great fun, and changes perspective on how such sigs are perceived.


Posted: 2020-07-21 16:35
Hi Gerd,

df9ts:
I would encourage everybody interested in CW to get a halfautomatic (bug) key and a side swiper (cootie).

Great fun, and changes perspective on how such sigs are perceived.


Can you recommend a bug. What to look for when buying.

foggycoder:

I find it particularly annoying as the rhythm is completely different to normal morse. It will be a very long time before I bring myself to answer a "Swinger".


If I can copy, I answer every call.









Posted: 2020-07-22 07:54
Hi Rüdiger,

you may try to borrow a bug in your local radio club, just to see how you like it.

If left-handed (like me) look for a left-hand bug.

For a first buy I would look for something around 100.- , maybe a lionel J-36. As in the beginning you have to slow the bug down for learning precision mechanics are not needed.

If you want to buy something nice then rather than Vibroplex have a look at I1QOD bugs.

Important: A bug is not a paddle, a bug to some extend is keyed with the "rolling wrist" rather then just the fingers.

For cootie key you just build your own ...

73

Gerd.


Posted: 2020-07-22 10:20
I have always failed to see the point of bugs: they were popular up to the 1960s, early 70s because electronic keyers remained very expensive.

Now that every transceiver worth its salt has an integrated keyer (with varying results) and one can purchase excellent keyers like the K44 for a pittance, what precisely is the point?

Straight keys have a very definite place, in my book, since , in addition to their propaedeutic value, they enable one to send:

1. Without a keyer, should one's keyer leave this world for keyer heaven;

2. The muscle groups involved in sending with a straight key are totally different from those involved in sending with a bug, as a result, I can foresee being able to send with a straight key when arthritis sets in, I doubt I will be able to do so with a paddle.

3. When and if one's hearing declines in old age, it remains possible to send with a straight key, whereas hearing is indispensable to send with a paddle.


Posted: 2020-07-22 12:55
About doing straight key with arthritis I wouldn't be as optimistic as you.
Bug can be operated with arthritis and even with tremble. You just roll. the fist.

I built my first paddle in the 70s, SN74.. and CMOS 40.. were cheap even then.


the point is that with a paddle you make yourself dependand on the paddle - ever seen OMs not capable with this or that paddle?

If you learn to decode morse code by ear, why not encode by hand. Straight keys limit speed, so bug or sideswiper is the evident next step.

73

Gerd.


Posted: 2020-07-22 17:15
Hi,

df9ts:

If you learn to decode morse code by ear, why not encode by hand. Straight keys limit speed, so bug or sideswiper is the evident next step.

73

Gerd.


Exactly this is the point.

What is the speed limit for a "normal" average OM with straight key?

I ordered a bug, I will tell my experience in some days or weeks.

73
Rüdiger


Posted: 2020-07-23 13:06
DD5RK:
What is the speed limit for a "normal" average OM with straight key?



Almost as many averages as operators - and almost as many standards as operators too.


The FCOC ( https://www.g4foc.org/ ) use 25wpm for their threshold - which is the same as Marconi had for their marine operators.


I'd guess 20wpm over the whole range of abilities . . .

Not many people seem like straight keys tho.

https://www.skccgroup.com/
https://fists.co.uk/





Posted: 2020-07-23 15:00
df9ts:


I built my first paddle in the 70s, SN74.. and CMOS 40.. were cheap even then

Gerd.


Well, let me put it his way, a Palomar Engineering keyer (which used mainly ICs) cost $67.50 in 1967 and I believe Vibroplex bugs could be had for around $10.

Average earnings for a US employeed in 1967 was $434 / month according to Social Security data, so a keyer was a major luxury.

Converted in 2020 US$ (in terms of purchasing power), that Palomar keyer would cost $521 and the Vibroplex bug around $77.

Only the very well-off could afford a keyer.



Posted: 2020-07-23 15:13
My keyer cost nothing (all ICs from scrap electronics, removed from PCB with use of open flame desolder.

In the late 70s bugs in Germany went for 70 DM or so.

I had no income and could affor a keyer, as a school boy.

I think those days who didn*t have income went with my approach, or stayed with straight key.

Lots of schematics for paddle electronics in ham magayines back then.

73


Posted: 2020-07-24 21:13
I have been moving on after getting 90% twice in a row, which reduces the chance I just got lucky with an easy one. It often takes me dozens of attempts after getting 90% to get two in a row!


Posted: 2020-07-26 00:19
Don't slow yourself down.


Posted: 2020-07-26 18:21
I first learned to send with paddles, cause I didn't think I would be able to learn the straight key well enough...

Now I have been doing several QSO's with straight key, and I like it more than paddles right now. It keeps my sending down in speed, so that I don't send faster, than what I'm able to copy, and I think the more experienced hams I QSO with, can hear that I'm a newbie, and they tend to slow down. Helps me do a mix of writing down, and headcopy what is sent to me...

Straight keying is nice.... :)


Posted: 2020-07-27 10:32
Straight keying is very nice :)


Posted: 2020-07-27 13:23
After training at 20/20 speed for a while (I once got 100%) I was disappointed in the progress of training at that speed.
I decided to fully concentrate on the 17/17 speed.
Now I set myself the task of getting three results in a row 100% at a speed of 17/17. Only after this achievement, move to the next speed.
But, at the same time, I always practice callsign exercises at a speed of 19 to 21 with writing on paper. I train my short-term memory and the speed of writing marks with my hand
How do you rate this tactic? What could be added?
Any advice?

Back to the Forum

You must be logged in to post a message.