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Thread: Recommend to go to next lesson when first getting >90%, or when getting it reliably?

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Posted: 2020-05-03 22:02
When is it time to move to the next lesson? The first time I copy above 90%, or when I can do so reliably?



Posted: 2020-05-03 22:39
m0thc:
When is it time to move to the next lesson? The first time I copy above 90%, or when I can do so reliably?



It depends .


I start the next lesson when I reach above 90% and do once 100%.
But it may take some time.
Several times I crossed earlier. When I did a few dozen (maybe a hundred) exercises and this did not improve. Because it is difficult to maintain motivation for several weeks in one lesson.
Good luck


Posted: 2020-05-05 09:56
My take on that is to go to the next lesson when you have been copying >90% for the last 3-5 runs or so. This ensures that I'm neither going too early (as a fluke 90+ result is unlikely to repeat) nor too late.

Performance is quite context dependent, so the reason for succeeding (or not) with the lesson might simply be the fact you're having a good day (or not); that's perfectly fine. If you're successful today, then go for the next lesson while you're in the groove.

I like switching lessons closer to the end of the day, do a couple sessions to prime my brain for the new data, and then sleep over it to let it consolidate overnight, and then continue on the next day. If I'm having a good run, this lets me progress a lesson each day.

More than a lesson a day, I find, leads to getting stuck further down the road. That might be personal, though. Also, if I'm still very uncomfortable copying the new character even though the results are okay, I tend to stay with it just a little bit longer, as that's a sign that it hasn't gone to muscle memory yet and can lead to getting confused when encountering the character later on, so I'll stick around just a while longer to get a little bit more comfortable.

Whatever you do, don't get stuck for too long. Overtraining is the real danger here, especially in the first lessons; it's as bad a phenomenon in people as with artificial neural networks, leading to you learning patterns that aren't actually there.

Consider, for example, the letters u and f. If you train too long on sets that include u but not f and drive your performance on those to 100%, you'll likely learn in the process to hit the u key the moment you hear dididah, since in these character sets there are no other letters that begin with this sequence, and hitting the key just as you hear the dah start will buy you time for the next letter. Then, when f is introduced, you'll probably be hitting u when you hear it anyway: you've learnt not to care what comes after the dididah, and will have to suppress this reflex in order to discriminate between the two.

It works the other way, too; if you overtrain on p but not w or j, the prefix didahdah will start defaulting to p all the time.


Posted: 2020-05-05 13:48
I agree getting stuck too long is a killer. It made code practice like learning the piano as a kid, not like an enjoyable hobbie. I kept the letter speed =>20 but slowed the wpm to 5-7 and that made all the difference for me. At 50, my brain needed a slower overall pace. I also found that spending too much time on a lesson i would start seeing or “thinking” the new character, not simply listening to the sound. I also began to use the Morse Machine and Callsign training. That mixed it up and made it more fun.


Posted: 2020-05-10 14:36
Another personal observation: if you are stuck on a letter and can't get good results with it despite training a lot more than the previous ones, advancing to the next lesson anyway will probably get you unstuck with the current letter.

I have no idea why, but it seems that if you have problems distinguishing similar character, adding _another_ one to the set seems to make the previous ones more distinct. Maybe it keeps you from overthinking it by giving you something new to focus on, or maybe it gives you something to contrast the previous characters with. Whatever the reason, it definitely works. O did this to W and J for me, while PT somehow consolidated A and N.


Posted: 2020-05-10 21:30
So, here's my success story. I kept the letters at 20WPM but after complete frustration at 10WPM effective speed I went to 5 and then to 3. This kept me engaged and was enough challenge to keep me at it for 30-45 min about 4-5 times a week. I just got through all 40 lessons! going slower may not be needed for everyone but it was a great success for me and kept the hobby-ness in this.

Of course I got on 40M last night and answered a CQ. It was real sloppy and slow (~4 WPM). I thought, HEY! I can read that. I answered and the guy proceeded to respond at about 10WPM fail on my side. BUT... at least i'm still at it.

Now i'll focus on the call sign practice and letter and number practice. Not a fan of =,/? but I did learn them. Hopefully a few more weeks and I'll be able to get on the air a little.

nn1q


Posted: 2020-05-11 10:47
nn1q:

SNIP

Of course I got on 40M last night and answered a CQ. It was real sloppy and slow (~4 WPM). I thought, HEY! I can read that. I answered and the guy proceeded to respond at about 10WPM fail on my side. BUT... at least i'm still at it.

SNIP


Hardly a fail on your side - there's no point in anyone sending faster than the the other OP is sending, ( unless you have wierd CONDX maybe)


"You send your code at the speed you can read
so the other OP knows how slow [s]he must go"

cb



Posted: 2020-05-11 21:47
Thanks, cb. I listened to the Arkansas QSO this weekend and heard a lot of .- --. -. from my fellow slow cw's.

BTW, another bit of advice i received when i started down this journey 3-4 years ago was to send with your non-dominant hand so your dominant hand can write. I have kept this up and highly recommend it. Send Left and write Right in my case. It also keeps me from sending faster than i can receive.

ed


Posted: 2020-05-12 14:21
nn1q:
I went to 5 and then to 3. This kept me engaged and was enough challenge to keep me at it for 30-45 min about 4-5 times a week. I just got through all 40 lessons!

nn1q



I welcome you Edward.
Tell me, are you able to increase the reception speed?
I already know all 40 characters well. About two weeks . But I can take only until the 30th lesson at a speed of 20/8
As soon as I start adding characters from zone 30-40 of the lesson, I lose the reception speed. I can only take at a speed of 20/4, it is two times less than in zone 1-30 a lesson. I don’t know what tactics to choose.
Try to do a lot of exercises (maybe 2-4 thousand) at the lowest speed with a set of 40 characters. Or try adding one character at a time to the first 30 characters that I can read quickly.


Posted: 2020-05-13 23:06
I simply dropped to 20/3 and now i'm doing words, call signs, etc. at 5+ (I started with 5 and fixed speed to build confidence. to be honest, the 5 wpm seemed slower than the 3wpm in my 40 lessons. I am getting better daily but I am in no way receiving in my head. But it feels good to have the 40 behind me now and can focus on putting it all together with the other tools. I also spent 2 solid days using the Morse Machine


Posted: 2020-05-30 15:42
Personally, I think that there's nothing bad at continuing to the next lesson even without having a complete 90% copy. In any case, it will get more to anticipate of the capability not learned in the lessons ahead. But 90% is defined so as it is considered a good threshold for adequately copying a character. If you feel confident to go on without getting in, do it. In any case, a high performance in a particular lesson is a consignment for the future ones.


Posted: 2020-05-30 17:30
IMHO make sure that you are claiming 90%+ on a lesson of reasonable length!

A few months ago I was doing some research on various tutors, and I added up the count of the characters. In one particular case for a 1 minute test at 10wpm there was only ONE occurrence of the lastest letter being added. So 90% on that run meant nothing about achieving a skill with that character.

YMMV as cb says.

73
wa2nfn


Posted: 2020-05-30 22:38
[quote=cb]Hardly a fail on your side - there's no point in anyone sending faster than the the other OP is sending, ( unless you have wierd CONDX maybe)


"You send your code at the speed you can read
so the other OP knows how slow [s]he must go"

cb

[/quote]

Not a general truth in my humble opinion.

When I transmit with a straight key, 12 up to 15 wpm with my old fingers and I assure the QSO partner with the dual paddles he/she can sent any speed they are able to produce, they never obey and keep sending 12 wpm.

To the topic starter:
Koch found out that you must proceed (to next lesson) after one time claiming 90 % or more correct.

The idea is that the already and just learned characters are repeated in next lessons. Furthermore that you reach as fast as possible lesson 40, because you can't use Morse code in practice without a complete alphabeth and figures.

When you have a lesson in your pocket you will experience that a new character upsets your brain with the result a backfall in speed. That effect will be especially obvious during lessons 2 to 7.

So my conclusion is that you best follow the rule, that after ONE exercise with 90% or more correct you have to proceed and go over to the next lesson.

Do not forget that another way is to learn first all characters (with Morse Machine) and after that start speeding up. Can be done in QSO's with other learners.

Finally the best way is the fastest way to learn to decode plain text, with the limitation that the used method does not lower your final speed ceiling.



Posted: 2020-06-02 12:02
At the end it does not matter when to move on to next lesson.

Move on too fast: you will come back to previous characters and train them more, sooner or later

Move on too slow: No harm


Posted: 2020-06-02 14:35
I run a 15 minute session. Once a day, or maybe twice. For the first five minutes, I do the lesson I was on last time. If I'm getting solid (or so) copy, I move to the next lesson about five minutes in. Then I do the new lesson for the remaining part of the 15 minute session. Next session.... repeat.

Best,
Ed AE2Z

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