[LCWO LOGO]  

Login

User name:
Password:


Language
Български Português brasileiro
Bosanski Català
繁體中文 Česky
Dansk Deutsch
English Español
Suomi Français
Ελληνικά Hrvatski
Magyar Italiano
日本語 Bahasa Melayu
Nederlands Norsk
Polski Português
Română Русский
සිංහල Slovenščina
Srpski Svenska
ภาษาไทย Türkçe
Українська 简体中文

Who is online? (16)


LCWO Discussion Forum [Atom LCWO Forum Feed]

This is a simple discussion forum for LCWO users. Feel free to use it for any kind of discussion related to this website.

Thread: PLEASE DO NOT CONFUSE US.

Back to the Forum

AuthorText


Posted: 2019-10-10 06:14
I have heard from more places than here how important it is to never drop below 10wpm while learning code. When we do it allows us to let our minds do things other than associate sound alone with the letters, numbers, and symbols of Morse Code.

In the settings screen of LCWO, we can set a value for wpm. After each lesson, we see a different value which is higher than what we set in the setting screen. Next, I found someplace on this website we should never learn code below 15wpm. It was information from the founder of LCWO, Fabian.

I have 3 different "wpm" speeds and I am doing my best to stick with the plan but WHAT IS THE PLAN? That is all I want to know, what is the recommended wpm for learners and which of the three values seen here represents the speed we should never drop below? I WANT TO DO THIS RIGHT!


Posted: 2019-10-10 06:30
My instinct tells me to learn this as fast as I can hear and distinguish one letter from another. There seems to be more value to using the fastest speed we can hear and be able to recognize the spacing between letters and words.

I am not trying to be a problem maker. I sincerely want to know if there is a problem with learning at an even faster speed than 10 or 15 wpm settings? A problem other than it will take considerably longer to learn each letter and right now I am not convinced there is any truth in this thought.

Suggestions/corrections/advice accepted with a smile on my end. :-)


Posted: 2019-10-10 21:48

You need to make progress - else you will get fed up and then give up . .
so
. . . you should not set off too fast for your level of aptitude.

If you do, you will wizz along for the first few lessons then it will catch up with you and progress will halt.

You learn by repeated decoding.

Hear morse - recognise pattern - letter pops into you head - repeat - repeat.


Some people get to 25/25 wpm in a couple of weeks, others in a couple of years.

Some get stuck at 15, some at 20wpm.

Most give up - maybe 90%


If you are going to pick up morse quickly or eventualy get up to 40wpm then you probably don't need much encouragement from this forum, and probably any advise - however correct - will be of limited use.

On the other hand, if you are going along at a more average speed, then you may benefit from encouragement, especially if your first aspirations were a bit too high and you have now found that it's going to be a bit of effort and more of a long haul,

If you are not at 25 wpm in 2 weeks then that doesn't mean that you are useless and have no aptitude.

BUT

we can't tell what your aptitude level is, so we can't tell you what we don't know.


There is nothing to be gained by learning morse at a slower rate than you can go, but if you go too fast you will get stuck when you have a number of letters in a lesson and it suddenly takes you longer than you have to decode what you are hearing.

So

you have to choose. Start at 20/5 by all means, but if it doesn't work out then be ready for a knock back.

What sort of character are you? Do you cope with setbacks; are you happy to spend the time and effort if learning doesn't come easy ?

How much do you want to learn morse? Will you be happy if you can only go at 20wpm ?

We can't know - so out advise will be a guess as to how to minimse the give up rate.


Probably we should advise slower say 13/5 so you will soon know where you stand and can speed up for a few sessions - but then that might annoy people who take this advise and then realise they just wasted two months because they could have started at 25/5

Be aware of something though to take away from this web site, namely

Morse code is in crisis. It is almost dying out in the west. The average age of successful morse students is about 50.

One day if you succeed in learning, you will have the opportunity to encourage or discourage a potential student with what you tell him/her

If you have high aptitude ( good hearing ) and get to 40 wpm you will be in a minority among western morsers and will think learning is easy if not trivial.

These people will not save morse code.

Morse will be saved by a large number of students of middle to low ability working their way through months of work and setbacks
and this web site has a large part which it can play in this.

so

expect some of us to offer slightly conservative advise to you - maybe a bit slower than you could manage,
because if you are much faster then that, you won't really need any advise and/or encouragement - just MORE PRACTICE ( get on with it )




Listen to lots of morse, get some mp3s for your cell phone. Keep at it. Relax. Never give up.


If you are making 15 wpm QLF then someone will still answer you, ( the Titanic emergency was carried out at 15wpm )

and then morse code shall not perish from the earth.




cb


















Posted: 2019-10-11 01:14
Monthow:


In the settings screen of LCWO, we can set a value for wpm. After each lesson, we see a different value which is higher than what we set in the setting screen. Next, I found someplace on this website we should never learn code below 15wpm. It was information from the founder of LCWO, Fabian.

I have 3 different "wpm" speeds and I am doing my best to stick with the plan but WHAT IS THE PLAN? That is all I want to know, what is the recommended wpm for learners and which of the three values seen here represents the speed we should never drop below? I WANT TO DO THIS RIGHT!


The two speeds like in 20/5 are the
20 the character speed. That means the dits and dashes of the character are sent like in real Morse code of plain text with 20 wpm.

The 5 means that the spaces between two characters and two words are wider and equal to the word and character spaces of 5 wpm real Morse code, hence
they are 4 times longer than the ought to be for Morsecode of 20 wpm. On this website the 5 in this example is called the effective speed.

That is to give you the opportunity to react.

The 20 wpm is done in order to give you a soundpicture of a character. It prevent more or less counting of dots.

The third speed given after finishing a lesson is the number of words per minute that your throughput was during the lesson. That is of course in this example 20/5 larger than 5 and smallen than 20.

Does this answer your question?

DJ1YFK advices 20/10 It turns out that is a speed that discourages students.

When you look in highscores on this website under Kock Lessons you find default the number of exercises more than 50 in 30 days, that is less then 2 one minute exercises every day.



Posted: 2019-10-12 05:48
I want to thank both of you who have answered. Yesterday I cranked up the speed characters are sent. I can copy characters faster than characters sent at 40wpm but I will admit at 45wpm it is difficult. I must listen closely at that speed to distinguish the sounds and yes it is well beyond what most can count dits and dahs at.

Stehpinkler, you came close to or may have answered my initial question. Now I have a better understanding of why we are seeing so many different speeds mentioned. Fabian seems to be a lot like me. For a long while, I thought it was easy for anyone to learn Morse Code. That was back when I had a perfect copy on a typewriter at 18wpm full text and could copy most of the code at much higher speeds. The TYPEWRITER IS WHAT SLOWED MY PROGRESS TO HIGHER SPEEDS. I must learn touch typing better before I will be able to get very fast receiving and right now I am having problems because of the medicine I take. Go read my bio and it will explain my situation.

The letters and numbers are coming back quickly. I remember more than half the alphabet but have only gone as far as lesson 4 because I need to work on speed. I have a perfect copy for the first few groups (up 10 to 15 groups) and trying to rush my typing I hit the wrong key. This is when I want to correct the error and get lost. I am going to have to learn to overlook the errors made in typing although it is hard since I know an error was made as soon as the wrong key was pushed. This is the result of years of typing computer code where I trained myself to make corrections as I typed.

Now I know what I need to do and I have you to thank for it. Specifically, it is to go back to the way I first learned Morse Code and approach it that way again while I refresh/relearn. I also know I will not be able to progress beyond a slower rate than I desired until I learn to type by touch and rid myself of this muscle memory thing I have going on from all those years coding computers.

I think you hit it on the nail head when you wrote /B/"The 20 wpm is done in order to give you a sound picture of a character. It prevents more or less counting of dots."/b/ Fabian tried to reinforce this by not wanting the receive speed to drop below 10wpm. I can barely print by hand while listening to code at that speed. Fabian was doing what Willaim G. Pierpont suggested in his book "The Art and Skill of Radio-Telegraphy".

I had changed the way I learned the first time to correspond to the book by Pierpont and later the default effective wpm in his LCWO program. It is the second setting for group speed I need to keep down while I increase the per character speed upward of at least 30 to 35wpm. This is what I had done many years ago when my progress was quick and I passed my Amateur Extra License exam.


Posted: 2019-10-12 13:40
I'd like to give a shout out to cb-chris for his wisdom and encouragement above - that sort of thing is just what we learners need to hear. Personally, I get a lot from the forum. I like to think that there's a whole bunch of silent "lurkers" out there who do too.

I've tried all sorts of different speeds over the last few months and, now on lesson 33, I've been on 20/4 for a few weeks. Once I've got to lesson 40 (and recovered from the celebration) I'll try 17/5 then 17/6, etc. For me, there's no right speed - I do whatever I need to do to keep going.

I try to do 3 half-hour sessions a day. I look forward to it so that's no hardship. Sure, it's a long haul, but that's okay as I'm enjoying it.


Posted: 2019-10-12 21:52
foggycoder:
I'd like to give a shout out to cb-chris for his wisdom and encouragement above - that sort of thing is just what we learners need to hear. Personally, I get a lot from the forum. I like to think that there's a whole bunch of silent "lurkers" out there who do too.

I've tried all sorts of different speeds over the last few months and, now on lesson 33, I've been on 20/4 for a few weeks. Once I've got to lesson 40 (and recovered from the celebration) I'll try 17/5 then 17/6, etc. For me, there's no right speed - I do whatever I need to do to keep going.

I try to do 3 half-hour sessions a day. I look forward to it so that's no hardship. Sure, it's a long haul, but that's okay as I'm enjoying it.


I probably should apologize to CB-CHRIS for not saying more about his wonderful words of wisdom. I hope you can accept my apology CB-CHRIS. :-)

I must say I am aggravated with myself for not keeping my past proficiency up. I am still ill but there was no reason other than selling off all my radio gear for dropping code. Now I am having to relearn what I lost to my own negligence. I was a 100% copy at 18wpm when I passed my Amateur Extra Class License exam.

Over my lifetime study has been easy for me unless it bored me. Anything that bored me received virtually no attention on my part. My high school days were not great but when I went to college I maintained an A average until graduation. I got to choose what I studied in College. .The few classes I had a lot less interest in received high grades from the motivation of not wanting to spoil my overall grade standing.

People are different, some read novels and some don't read. I chose to read textbooks, I found novels and other books were not enjoyable. The way we each are wired to learn is different. Many of us take a while to learn things and remember it for a long while. Others study fast and recall is shorter (maybe a few weeks) unless what is studied is used nearly daily. I took this fast route, logically it made sense to not put a lot of time into learning something I would hardly use. Those things we seldom use can be looked up in a reference book or textbook when needed.

During the days when my code speed was at an acceptable level, I learned by listening to tapes while commuting to work and back. This gave me a solid 2 plus hours of days of study, 10 hours a week. I could not write down what I heard but late at night before bed, I would spend another 15 minutes copying code with a typewriter. It took 2 months to learn Morse Code and attain an 18wpm solid copy with zero errors. I learned using the Koch method but learned the letters in a-z order followed by numbers and special characters. This course is different, it presents letters mostly in the order most used in writing. I can easily see a great advantage to learning code this way, it gives more repetition to what will be needed most. Anything receiving more repetition will be the easiest to recall.

On the topic of characters sent at(wpm), there is no doubt in my mind that we will see greater accomplishment by learning to understand characters sent at the highest speed at which we are able to easily understand those characters correctly. If more time is needed to write or copy received code we should reduce the effective (wpm)speed. I can see no advantage in reducing the speed of individual characters when our objective is learning to recognize them by sound and copy them down. Why would we want to lessen the speed of what we know we can understand? We should be increasing that speed as we make progress through the list of characters to learn. By realizing we will progress more slowly in the beginning we are acknowledging a fact. The fact that we improve through repetition and we best retain what we have repeated the most.

Frequently change your routine to make it slightly more difficult. This will stimulate your subconscious mind to pay less attention to code recognition you placed in your head and more attention to the sounds your ears are subconsciously hearing. :-)

Best of 73s de N9ZN, Tampa, Fl.
Monty


Posted: 2019-10-16 19:36
Monty.
You wrote
[quote]On the topic of characters per second (cps), there is no doubt in my mind that we will see greater accomplishment by learning to understand characters sent at the highest speed at which we are able to understand those characters correctly. If more time is needed to write or copy received code we should reduce the effective speed. I can see no advantage [/quote]

So I tried and can copy widely separated characters (effective speed 10 wpm) with a speed of 55 wpm.

Your conclusion is, if I understand correct, to use a character speed of 55 wpm and an effective speed of 10 wpm, that I am using right now, just finishing lesson 40 at 20/10?

Is the conclusion when I try to increase my effective speed from 10 upwards, that I finally cab copy correctly spaced morsecode at 55/55 ?

Or would it be better to lower the 55 character speed in order to arrive somewhere in the 12/12 range of correct spaced morse code?

Your advice for my case is 55/10?

I read in this forum that I have to close the cap, and your advice is 55/55 in my case?


Posted: 2019-10-17 00:35
Stephpinkler, thank you for pointing out an error in my above statement. I will correct the use of cps to (characters at ##wpm).

what I am saying is while you are learning the characters use a per/character wpm speed as high as you can hear the character without confusion over what the character is. This will keep your focus on the sound of the character instead of the dits and dahs that create the sound.

This has nothing to do with the speed you wish to finally attain. If your goal is sending and receiving at 20wpm there is no reason to keep the per character wpm speed high once you have learned the characters by sound. Then you can focus on closing the gap to the speed of your desired goal. This is the point where you are practicing your spacing for each character and words. When you reach this point using a Morse Code decoding device to read your sent code will verify your spacing is correct within each character and between each word.

My apology for the confusion.

Back to the Forum

You must be logged in to post a message.

$Id: forum.php 62 2015-01-12 17:34:44Z fabian $