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LCWO Discussion Forum [Atom LCWO Forum Feed]

This is a simple discussion forum for LCWO users. Feel free to use it for any kind of discussion related to this website.

Thread: What Effective Speed Should I Learn At?

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AuthorText


Posted: 2018-01-17 01:51
I'm trying to learn using the Koch Method CW Course with a character speed of 20 wpm and an effective speed of 10 wpm (default settings). However, I'm having a hard time writing down all the characters in time. That is, if I even hesitate on a character for the slightest moment, I get left behind very quickly. So, should I lower the effective speed, and if so, what to? Or is the pressure good for me in the long run?


Posted: 2018-01-17 15:50
Start with character speed to match effective speed at whichever speed you can manage. Work your way up from there. Progress like 7/7 , 8/8, 9/9 , etc....


Posted: 2018-01-17 20:08
20/5


Posted: 2018-01-17 22:26
I watched a you tube video which looked very interesting with lots of advice from a large group of hams about to learn cw in America. The advice from the teacher was use this software. set the character speed to 30wpm yes that right... and build up your wpm keeping character speed high. I amd trying this method.. Reason being that the character speed remains same throughout only the wpm alters so you are not re learning every time.., giving it a go


Posted: 2018-01-18 11:34
Stephen,

You finally master Morse code in that case when you reach 30/30, theoretically; practically you will change plan or quit prematurely.

Only a few percent of hams are able to communicate in plain language at 30 wpm.

Communicating at 30/10 is a pain in the ear.

Normal speed is between 12 and 25 wpm. (12/12 till 25/25)

So be wise and do not start at character speed 30
take 20 OR 15 use 20/5 when finished the complete course lower 20 and increase 5 to reach real Morse code at about 10 wpm (10/10)/
After that is all done, you can try a higher speed 11/11 and so on.



Posted: 2018-01-21 13:21
To master CW at 10 wpm si respectble and usable on the bands.
Few OMs truly master CW at 20 wpm and up.

I find it absurd that absolute beginners use 20 wpm, 30 wpm or more - just because some unknown OM in a forum (often beginners themselves) says so.

Good luck with CW & enjoy!


Posted: 2018-01-21 15:05
test:
To master CW at 10 wpm si respectble and usable on the bands.
Few OMs truly master CW at 20 wpm and up.

I find it absurd that absolute beginners use 20 wpm, 30 wpm or more - just because some unknown OM in a forum (often beginners themselves) says so.

Good luck with CW & enjoy!



I'm not entirely convinced that much "go fast" advice here comes from beginners.

I think quite a bit comes from people who are naturally able to learn morse to a fairly high speed
( some of whom will be "beginners" in the sense that they got to 25wpm in a fortnight )
and I think that that proves problematical for the rest of us.

In my NSHO morse will only survive if the "slower" ( normal in my speak ) operators, who may take a year to reach 15wpm, are encouraged to stick with it and enjoy themselves at whatever speed they reach.

In my view ( possibly rather to often expressed for some people over the past 8 years ) the main issue is the drop out rate caused by disappointment, frustration lack of progress, boredom etc.

A lot of this comes from unrealistic expectations.

I wouldn't tell people not to learn at 30wpm if they can manage it, or 20 or whatever.

Nor to argue that learning at 10/10 15/15 20/20 ( which means you are listening to correctly spaced morse all the time ) is disadvantageous because means you have to learn several times . .

Just point out that you need to choose a rate which allows you to make steady progress - else you will give up.

My advise FWIW is to try a variety of speeds and see which allows you to make the "best" progress for yourself.
- but - bearing in mind that your hearing may be an issue - to also try a variety of audio frequencies, which I think our "faster" chums don't recognise as an issue - because they don't suffer from this.

I would also ignore metaphorical olympic athletes and no-gain-without-pain / push yourself to the limit etc.

I'm sure they provide plenty of pain, with or without gain; but none of us are going to race in the olympics, and my concern continues to be encouraging our slower ( soon to be ;) chums . . .

cb



Posted: 2018-01-21 18:55
Some Danish ham published some time ago on eham.net
graphs of the speed that was published by reverse beacon networks. I remember, but I am not sure, that the average speed was 20 wpm.

Please notice, cb, that topic starter tries to start the third time, in learning Morse code proficiency.

I persist that it is unwise to learn at 30 wpm character speed, because you will probably never close the gap to 30/30

Remember that the purpose of higher character speed was: to learn the sound of characters without counting dits and dahs , because the theory is that it is unwise to learn at 5/5, with proof that the USA amateurs, required to start 5/5 in the past with Xtal controlled transmitters, do not touch at the proficiency of former CCCP countries.

Statistics on this website show that people working at 20/10 often quit due to frustration by lack of progress, so my advice is 15/5 or 20/5 for the 40-lesson course, and after finishing to go slope wise to 10/10 which is a usable speed for beginners as test-user in this thread also said.


Posted: 2018-01-22 02:15
Agree with "ldeletedl - chairphone". Slower than 20wpm character speed and I end up counting the dits and the dahs, which leads to visualizing the pattern in place of recognizing the sound. Even at 20wpm character speed I find myself doing some visualization.

Seems to me that 20/10wpm may be too fast. Started at 20/7wpm and ended up at 20/6wpm.

Have completed the lessons at 20/6wpm. Now its time to get better at distinguishing runs of three dits from four dits so that I may distinguish V from 4, B from 6, and the related H from 5. If I get those six right each time, my error rate drops from 8-10 characters per minute in error to 3-6 depending on the set of random characters sent.


Posted: 2018-01-23 00:31
Jonathan,

don't see what visualisation or counting has to be avoided.

I can count dots at 50 wpm. Doesn't mean I need to step up to 70 wpm?

As with the sound hearing that comes with time, why force it?



Posted: 2018-01-23 16:47
the goal is get from the sound of each symbol to comprehension of the message. For beginners like me, that means getting from sound of each symbol to a letter, number, punctuation, or prosign. Hopefully, in the future, I will recognize words and go from sound to words without thinking of letters.

Going from sound to a visual to a letter to a word to the meaning of the message has at least one unnecessary step, that of visualization. My understanding is that its better to avoid that step.

In you case it seems that the visualization step is not slowing you down at all.

Quite impressed that you can count dits at 50wpm! Dont know if I'll ever get that fast.


Posted: 2018-01-23 20:48
Hi all,

It good to see my post has had some response, As a relatively new ham and complete novice to cw any help is much appreciated. The you tube feed was (getting started learning morse code by Ray Anderson a us ham leading a classroom of amatures into CW. Please take a look for so you can make your own opinion. I get the high character speed but low wpm as some have mentioned he discouraged the counting of dits dahs I cant move past lesson 4 but have only been practicing for about 8 days 30 ch per min and 5 wpm gives about 10 wpm effective. There seems to be so much advice on this subject its hard to sort the wheat from the chaff. please view the feed I look forward to your comments.


Posted: 2018-01-24 23:58
I suppose this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UT973YhjdR4&list=PLQy1WwmD8JlZeCBhZUba3PK-2tyLjTeuK&index=1

25 minutes sri.

I do not see much chaff on this website.


Posted: 2018-01-25 14:14
I am 15 characters into the Koch method. When I started, I tried different speed combinations. I finally settled on 17/6 which is where I am now. This combination feels comfortable to me. I think there is value in learning the code at a higher character speed. The low effective speed makes the process easier for a newbie like me.

I also like to train in 2 minute intervals. I think this helps to build stamina and concentration. It may or may not also correspond to a more realistic "on air" experience.

Another learner pointed out to try copying (only for 1 minute) at a fast speed, say 20/20, once in a while, just to push yourself.


Posted: 2018-01-25 19:32
Do at least 10 minutes of copy each day, and one will see steady improvement.


Posted: 2018-01-25 19:50
kb1yql:
I am 15 characters into the Koch method. When I started, I tried different speed combinations. I finally settled on 17/6 which is where I am now.


Perfect, you are going to make it



Posted: 2018-01-25 21:23
Hi all,
I didn't mean to offend with the wheat from the chaff comment, my point was there is so much good advice with some finding it better to learn at slow others faster character's and wpm pace what works for one does not always work for another. We are all new to this otherwise we wouldn't be on this site. I value all advice and have after trying 30ch speed and 5 wpm I decided to lower to 20 ch speed and 8 wpm which seems to be more comfortable and i'm moving forward again after a dead stop. I find after a few minutes i'm not processing so a small break and try again is working. trying every day and progress however slow is being made. good luck all


Posted: 2018-01-25 21:57
Stephen,

This is your last (4 th) attempt to learn the code.

You get positive feedback.

Nobody that was succesfull learned the code by spending much time in selecting a way to do it and reading about it.

It is just sweating it out and perseverance.

On this website your statement "We are all new to this otherwise we wouldn't be on this site." is certainly not true.

You van get a lot of advice from guys proficient in QRQ CW. The webmaster is world champion call sign copy, so just start 20/5 and keep us informed about your progress.


Posted: 2018-01-26 07:17
Hi all,

This is the first time I dive into the forums but I'm registered here some months ago.
My name is Miguel (don't let the nickname confuse you). Although I like Morse code a lot it doesn't mean I'm an op or something.
I do think that probably it depens on the speed one want to achieve, one which keeps you motivated and you like it.
I think I can decently copy at 20/20 (don't ask me how I did please 'cause I myself don't know) so it's most likely it depens on getting a confortable speed for oneself like someone else's
said.
Just don't give up! It's a cliche maybe, but really it works.
Kind regards!


Posted: 2018-01-26 20:51
Hi all,

I will feed back on progress when some has been made. It is good to hear how people are getting on good or bad. Thank you all for the advice Don't give up is the one constant from everyone.

Kindest regards

Stephen


Posted: 2018-02-09 15:13
I just wanted to point out that it's one thing to be able to copy CW at a certain speed, but sending at that same speed also requires a lot of practice.

My initial goal is 20 WPM, because that's about as fast as I think I can manage initially with my iambic paddle.

With 20 WPM, I can start making CW contacts and gain experience. Then I can work on getting faster, mastering a straight key, etc.

I am very grateful for this website! We are fortunate to have free tools like this, and don't have to listen to vinyl records of dits and dahs.

73, Mike N5MAJ


Posted: 2018-02-27 17:57
Hello Everyone, glad to be part of this group.

I feel like Pete Hadley's(K6BFA) push to learn characters fast is to not get caught visualizing the characters because it slows you down, thus making it more difficult to being able to understand in your mind, rather than writing it all down. Sounds useful as in the future I don't want to write a whole conversation, rather, I want to just have a conversation, and only write down important info.. Like when I speak to someone on the phone, I'm not visualizing letters, I understand our words because of the sounds associated.

I continually also see many others on the web describing how they learned by visualizing, and they never got over it.

That most people who use CW go slower, I see important also. I want to be able to communicate with everybody.

Can I throw out a question? I'm wondering wouldn't it be easier to learn characters fast, understand them on a deeper level, and then learn slower rate with words once characters have been integrated in the mind? (I understand that the spacing is huge between letters and sounds) Rather than learning slow, possibly getting stuck visualizing, and then having to go through all that?

73
Sam


Posted: 2018-02-28 12:34
When you learn characters fast, hence as a bunch all together, you will make help issues to remember them,
like the military example demonstrates in the you tube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li8Hiwbc664

So that takes an intermediate step in decoding.
A DON'T DO IT method.

Most chance on success IMHO is this course here.

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