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After getting used to 20WPM I encounter a new problem I start counting dits and dahs.
Instead of just getting the sound big problem.

What happens if you try at 25 wpm ???


You say 20 wpm character speed ??
What effective speed are you using ??


Remember, you will learn morse more firmly by lots and lots of repetition . . .

sound sequence -> letter pops into your head


After a period you will recognise whole words at once . . .

sound sequence -> word pops into your head


Set a fast-ish character speed and a slow-ish effective speed to give you time to associate morse with a letter.
As you get better, then speed up.

Repeat, repeat, repeat, enjoy . . .

cb

me too, after numbers.
Slowed down from 24 to 21 wpm after lesson 23
to copy difference from H, 5;

now 8 is "long sequence of dashs endign with 2 dits",
2 is "two dits ending with long sequence of dashs"

With morse machine I'm around 6 effective speed,
both 21 and 24 wpm, but at 24 wpm more errors with H,5
In lessons, 4 wpm efective is too fast for me ( now) , 3 wpm is right and ends with really 6 wpm.

IMNSHO

DON'T get drawn in to worrying too much about

"5" "h" "s" "ie" etc

DO try a number of different audio frequencies,
because
shifting a few 10s of HZ can make a big difference to reading/decoding
( for some people who don't have a flat ear response, but if this includes you, you really need to know about it )

After a bit you will spot 5 and h from the length of the character among other things.


repeat repeat repeat etc

( or am I repeating myself tooo much !?! )

cb

R , repeat is the key ;-)

But if I can copy at 25 , then can I too copy at 15-20 ?

Probably - the issue whereby people who can ( and therefore always do ) copy at high speeds like 35 - 40 wpm and above report having difficulties at 5 - 10 wpm . .

. . . is probably due largely to these faster copiers hearing the whole word as a single entity
- rather like we do visually when reading text

. . . but then having to collate letters at 5 wpm and then spell out the word is more of a challenge for them ( me too ) and less of a practised skill.


For learning - I think you are best advised to set the character wpm as high as is comfortable

- fast enough to hear a character single entity rather than a collection of dah-dits

and then adjust the "effective speed" downwards until you can decode quite long strings of characters without falling behind.

I also advise testing a few different audio frequencies, because my hearing response to code isn't anywhere near flat right across the audio range.

I am unlikely to be unique in this regard.

If you are decoding along quite easily without counting then you will speed up over time as a matter of course just through practise.

cb

I found this a problem too, but saw a video on YouTube where the presenter was recommending 30wpm as counting dots becomes quite a lot harder - you're more likely to hear the character as a chunk of sound rather than counting.

For me, this has helped a lot. I started at 30/5, and have found that my fingers have often typed the correct response without my consciously choosing that character, and often thinking that auto-response was wrong when it turned out that many were correct.

I didn't think the difference between 30/5, 30/6 and 30/7 would be significant, but it really is. Try the higher (30wpm) character speed. It might help.
-- Giovanni

[quote=ZL2GX]
[SNIP]
I started at 30/5, and have found that my fingers have often typed the correct response without my consciously choosing that character
[SNIP]
-- Giovanni[/quote]


I did something like this when I started back in 2009.

Back then I also found that I was typing the letter unconsciously, which was great as far as typing it all down was concerned
but
not so good for reading in real time, straight from the transmission.

I didn't exactly have to start again, but it delayed
me a bit and was rather annoying . . . .

If you are aiming for reading in your head
you need to aim
for having the letters just popping into your mind, as if from nowhere, when you listen to code.

You could avoid this issue by trying just listening and seeing if you actually recognise the letters.

I would be interested to hear how you get on
because
I would like to identify some of the issues which cause people with less than perfect aptitude for morse, to stall in their progress and then give up.

FWIW
I think another issue is ear response, which means that some people ( eg. me ) find code (much) less clear at some audio frequencies - which affects the speed of the hear-it->associate-it-with-a-letter learning response . . .
but
I guess you don't suffer from that if you are ok at 30wpm char speed :-)

cb

I'm now 25/3 on lesson 31 with accuracy of 86%
( most error H,5 )
I'll try 30 on morse machine.

I'm also using android app https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.iz2uuf.cwkoch with speech support.
When walking from work I listen in group of two char at 25 wpm then I say the char and wait for app to speech.
When new char I enlarge space x4 then reduce to x1.

Sadly I can not remember more than 2 char at time.

On lcwo I try to speech when I type.

When I'll reach lesson 40, I'll restart writing by hand and hope increasing real speed.

With morse machine at 30wpm I can copy about the same that 25wpm.
I'm still about 6 REAL wpm and still try to count.....

My target is 20wpm ( real, with vertical or sidesweeper, but manual key and qrp) so I'll continue with 25 and
repeat, repeat .... and repeat ;-)

[quote=iu2hds]
[SNIP]
most error H,5
[SNIP]
[/quote]

. . . well, you will mix h and 5 sometimes.

In the real world the context will help . . .

. . . so just keep going and don't worry too much about that.

You will slowly get faster IYSWIM

cb